Tournament Advice - Page 3

Marm · #21 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 10:42 PM

MXP, this is quoted from a recent post of mine on PokerPages. Some of this may have been covered already, in posts, and all discussion is welcome. I know Alex was one of the key dissenters in the discussion mentioned.

Quote:

Depends on the structure and your Bankroll. I usually consider the sum of 10 buy-ins/rebuys/add-ons to be the total buy-in for the event, and then have 15-20 buy-ins to have a saf e Bankroll. This is strictly for budgeting reasons. I feel 10 rb's is enough to cover the majority (85%) of the evetns I play. I usually don't spend more than 5-6 rb's though on an abverage day (Initial buy-in, immediate add-on, 3 rebuys or add-ons, end of break add-on).

Math Dictates that you have a higher EV to rebuy than not when you bust out. Obvious. You have a 0% of cashing when you don't rebuy, and you have >0% chance when you do.

Whether to add-on is determined by the allowances of the rules and the nature of the game your playing. If most people play pretty tight for a rebuy, then the immediate add-on probably isn't neccesary. But If you know you will get all your chips in with your premium hands regardless of what they have, then the immediate add-on willallow you to get full value for these hands, since you should have them outchipped (or not if they've picked up a couple pots). But The chance to have 4x the inital stack is worth the add-on. For the same reasons, anytime you drop below the threshhold that allows you to add-on, you should do so.

Adding-on at hteh break is a little trickier. There does come a point when your stack is of a great enough size that the cost of adding-on is greater than the $EV you gain by getting these chips. Each TC is worth % chance of winning/cashing. Ther more chips you have, the greater your chances. But as your stack grows, the value of each chips decreases. (theres a whole chapter in Sklanskys Tournament POker on this concept). So if you have a short stack, You gain exponentionaly by adding-on. But if you have a massive stack, you gain less chance than you spent, there fore making this add-on a -EV move. Note though, this is for massive stacks only. We are talking HUGE. Paul Samuels did an article on this a while back, you should be able to find it in the archives. There was also a discussion in one of the forums here about the article.

Remember, after the break, what may seem like a large stack may only be 20bb's or so in a couple of levels, so the add-on now may be crucial.

Also read Suzuki's Poker Tournament Strategies on rebuy strategy.

Marm

the alex · #22 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 11:49 PM

This discussion surfaced from a Poker Pages article, if I remember "To Add on or not to Add On" (It might've been Card Player. I'll look for the article on both. It might've been on both.)

I don't remember what I said at the time. I agree very much with your entry+rebuy+add on consideration total. Where we disagreed was whether to add on or not and I always add on and I understand your argument and partly agree. I'm just in the school of thought that no matter how your playing or how big your stack is, add-on if the add on is within your BR. (If not, you shouldn't have entered the tourney in the first place.)

I say this because I believe:

A.) You can never have too many chips in your stack

and

B.) When you're in a tourney and you are not playing well, you just gotta switch it up and tough it out. The last thing that you need to do is pass on an oppurtunity to add to your stack.

The most expensive re-buy tourney that I've ever played is the weekly $85+$15 ($45RB/$45AO) at Harrah's. I consider this within my roll to be able to be aggressive during the reebuy phase and rebuy any and every time I sink and add-on at the break. This buy in structure is within my realistic ring hourly rate as my daily winning sessions on average are $400+ and I like to play a cash game after a tourney. You won't see me touching a tourney with a buy in>$800 because of my tourneyHR's:ringHR's ratio. (Especially now, since other than my Vegas trip, I haven't played a tourney since the summer live.)

the alex · #23 (**permalink**) 01-14-2005, 12:11 AM

I posted links to the Paul Samuel articles and the Poker Pages thread in another thread. I think people might find it interesting. It's definitely a point of view that I didn't understand until I read it.

"To Add on or not to Add On": http://pokerforums.org/showthread.php?t=1428

KiD[ReD] · #24 (**permalink**) 01-14-2005, 04:13 AM

Yes but the point is you shouldn't even be PLAYING a rebuy if you can't afford an add-on or rebuys because it's 'out of your bankroll'. The whole idea is to spend as little as possible while still achieving a medium+ stack into the break. The prizes are the just reward.

In rebuys I will play a few more speculative hands stronger. For example, in the other thread there was a discussion about AA all-in PF with 8 others all-in. See, in a rebuy, I WOULD call this, because it would not mean elimination.

Another example is if I happened to win that 9-way, I would then start playing very conservatively until the break, as I am very happy with my chip stack and want to get to the break with it (where I will still add-on despite my large stack).

For me personally, rebuys are like 2 different tournaments combined in one: the first hour is all about building a DECENT (average+) chipstack, and then after the break I play my normal tournament strategy.

Beavis68 · #25 (**permalink**) 01-14-2005, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themcdietz(bob_ryan22)

its not -ev limping with everyhand because of your tremendous pot odds after the flop... why dont u understand???

tons of action on flop so if u hit a monster u will get paid off

+ev everyhand u limp

You could go through your starting stack before you ever hit a monster to 92o.

Even in play money games, people don't limp in then call all-ins on the flop with nothing.

KiD[ReD] · #26 (**permalink**) 01-14-2005, 07:54 AM

In play money people do anything.

mxp2004 · #27 (**permalink**) 01-14-2005, 08:00 AM

You guys are the best. I really appreciate how much time everyone has taken to give me some advice. I'm going to study the links that have been posted. This is a $100 buyin/$50 rebuy tourny, and the freeze-out comes after only 1 hour. So I think I'll bring $300 and see what happens.

I hope I don't let you guys down. Look for a post next Thursday morning. I'll let everyone know how I made out.

Beavis68 · #28 (**permalink**) 01-14-2005, 08:53 AM

Good luck and have fun.

the alex · #29 (**permalink**) 01-14-2005, 01:04 PM

$300's cool. Good luck. Keep your head on straight and have fun. Rebuy tournies are a lot of fun to play and fun to watch the people rebuy and rebuy and rebuy and rebuy and rebuy and add on and go broke 15 minutes after the rebuy period is over.

Marm · #30 (**permalink**) 01-14-2005, 09:50 PM

Yeah, $300 should suffice, but be prepared to drop more.... It may happen. Remeber the saying about ring games? No matter how stuck you are, if the game is great, keep playing. Same idea. Obviously they are playing rebuy poker, but if you can tell these fish are just ready to be caught and filleted, then keep rebuying, eventually (hopefully) variance will level out and the bad beats will stop (or reverse) If you think you can decimate this MTT post-break, then keep plunking the rebuy down. rememeber, if you place, you will see that money again, we hope.

GL! :good: