Can people give me their opinions on this one .... cast me down in flames if you like!!!

There are possibly 3 - 4 people pre flop.

The flop has come down with 2 of a suit, you have hit top pair top kicker and are first to act.

This is where I am gonna get slightly different on general rules of poker.

If I make a bet to kill flush draw odds I know I will get a caller (either from a real drawer or from a card player representing a flush), so I make a bet to give flush draw odds. People who have no draw fold, drawers call, players with a real hand raise.

If the turn comes no flush then hit it hard ....

Reasons:

1. When I have a calling station on draws he is identified by an odds driven call.

2. I have committed less chips if the flush draw hits.

3. If the flush draw hits and still no action then you can assume you have the best hand.

4. It is easier to kill the odds and push off a drawer with one card to come.

5. Pot is sweetened when the flush misses.

Originally Posted by G_The_Jester

Reasons:

1. When I have a calling station on draws he is identified by an odds driven call.

A calling station would call regardless if you gave odds or not.

Originally Posted by G_The_Jester

2. I have committed less chips if the flush draw hits.

And you'll win less when it doesn't hit

Originally Posted by G_The_Jester

3. If the flush draw hits and still no action then you can assume you have the best hand.

Some players will check trying for either a check raise or to win more chips on the river. (If the flush hits on the turn)

Originally Posted by G_The_Jester

4. It is easier to kill the odds and push off a drawer with one card to come.

Can't argue with that point.

Originally Posted by G_The_Jester

5. Pot is sweetened when the flush misses.

Pot is lower meaning you will win less when the flush misses.

I have actually thought the same things. I can't count the number of times I've lost a pot to a flush after I didn't give proper odds to chase. I was really questioning my play, wondering if I could cut my losses by doing what you are proposing. I then realized that betting less would hurt my profits. Keep in mind, You'll make the most money while they are chasing, not after the flush doesn't hit.

I am coming from a tournament point of view not from a cash game point of view.

Whatever point you are coming from this is a terrible idea. If you give them odds to draw to a flush they can also draw to two pair, a straight, trips, etc.

Think about how many other bad beats you've added because you grew a vagina?


If you want to play scared play by betting the full pot amount. This way, even if they hit a piece of the flop and have the flush draw they still really need to fold. If they call your getting paid well. You cannot look at one hand as the answer....you need math over time....keep reading them books and good luck.

Actually this is a common tactic. It's used more in a limit setting but can be tweaked to no limit

you bet small (or not at all if you were heads up). this keeps the player interested and instead of the 2 to 1 to make their flush on the turn and river, when you do bet big they are 4.5 to 1 with 1 card to go.

An Example:

1/2 blinds everyone has $100, you raise to $5 pre-flop and got 1 caller, so a $12 pot.

you have AK and you the flop is KT3 with 2 spades. For arguements sake let's assume your opponent has 2 spades.

Now there is $12 in the pot and you have $94 behind it, so there is no real way to eliminate this player with a bet here unless you make a HUGE overbet. So why not fire in a little bet of 5-10 to build a pot and also give you an escape route if another spade hits?

Say you end up betting 10 and villian calls, now the pot $32, if a spade doesn't hit you could bet the pot on the turn and cause a "real" mistake by villian. Calling $32 to win $116 (if you lost and called the river) Now he is making a real mistake since the implied odds are not there.

On the other hand, if you bet $25 on the flop trying to cut down his odds, not only may he have you smooshed with a set but he's getting close to the right odds to just move in on you and possibly move you off the best hand.And he is simply getting close to the right implied odds to see the next card

So say you bet $25 on the flop (pot $62, you have $69 left) If you move all-in on the turn it's less likely he will call getting only 2 to 1, and you lose a lot less when he hits on the turn. If you bet less you are again giving him close to the correct odds to go for it.

There is little you can do to cause a mistake on the flop so there is nothing wrong with this strategy.

Again it is more of a limit thing but it works in NL as well.