lately TA and alex have been talkin about hand ranges and what hands call us that we have beaten....

recently i was in a large mtt almost at the first hour break been catching really good cards and really good flops

sat about 50th out of 300 or so

got ace 9 off in the sb blinds were 50/100

few limpers (4 or so)

flop comes im first to act pot is 400 i bet 500 3 folds last guy min raises me, i flat call

turn pot is 2400 at this point i have 4k or so left, i put him on maybe a set wasnt fully sure, but flush draw was more possible his min raise and in position seemed to me he might of been trying to buy a card....i push, he calls with pocket 9's


how do you guys read when people have a set, was the min raise his first sign he wants action and the ace was an awful card for me? should i of put him on a set to begin with and check on the ace and let him dictate the action. I had no read on him and alex has told me before buy a lotto ticket or play aggressive in those big tournaments and its workd so far, this is just one of those instances that im trying to get better at...

- min bets from a player that habitually min bets with big hands
- calls from a player that is normally very tight
- feel
- hope you accidently click the fold button after making a good hand (as you did) and he shows his set along with "nice fold" appearing in the chat box.

I think you're raise or fold on the flop and not many limping hands beat you, but it depends on the opponent. A lot of people limp with Queens, Jacks, Tens, and Nines and almost nobody raises with 22 or 33.

You have 5100 going into the hand. You bet the flop for 500 and when you're raised, you have about 4500 with a pot of about 1900. With blinds this low, this is an easy fold because you're going broke here a lot calling this raise because when you call, the pot's half your stack. I think you're raise/fold on the flop. Folding this is a safe way to go. You don't need to gamble with your stack as it is right now.

Before the antes kick in, I won't take a flop with that many people in the SB with A9. You're only gonna win small pots and lose big pots.

I do not think you can put this guy on 99, since he only limped (in LP, not 100% sure but at least it sounds this way) and you hold one of the other 9s. However 22 or 33 would be in his hand range, so you can not rule out the set here.

The min raise is quite strange, if he was on a draw I would expect him to either semi-bluff by re-reraising some kind of pot-sized bet or just check and take the free card. What would be the purpose of the min raise other then building the pot.

Once the A hits though I dont really see you getting away from this hand. Im prob going to take my chances and take this pot down right now too.

Originally Posted by obga

lately TA and alex have been talkin about hand ranges and what hands call us that we have beaten....

recently i was in a large mtt almost at the first hour break been catching really good cards and really good flops

sat about 50th out of 300 or so

got ace 9 off in the sb blinds were 50/100

few limpers (4 or so)

flop comes im first to act pot is 400 i bet 500 3 folds last guy min raises me, i flat call

turn pot is 2400 at this point i have 4k or so left, i put him on maybe a set wasnt fully sure, but flush draw was more possible his min raise and in position seemed to me he might of been trying to buy a card....i push, he calls with pocket 9's


how do you guys read when people have a set, was the min raise his first sign he wants action and the ace was an awful card for me? should i of put him on a set to begin with and check on the ace and let him dictate the action. I had no read on him and alex has told me before buy a lotto ticket or play aggressive in those big tournaments and its workd so far, this is just one of those instances that im trying to get better at...

You didn't say if your A was a diamond or not (or if you had him covered) ... this affects my deductions on the flop betting (if I hold a diamond it reduces the chance of him being on a flush draw). If so what is he re raising you with? Overpair (TT, JJ?) Trips? Whatever alarm bells ring!! If I have him covered he is less likely to be making a move.

Turn comes an ace .. I check and see if he bets ... if he was after a free card he will check too, if he has a hand he is likely to bet, you may get to call a small bet if he has a set as he keeps you interested. This might just stop you getting busted.

this is a pretty good thread alot of things have been posted that might save us chips in big tournaments

Jester said
Turn comes an ace .. I check and see if he bets ... if he was after a free card he will check too, if he has a hand he is likely to bet, you may get to call a small bet if he has a set as he keeps you interested. This might just stop you getting busted.

this is a good point and i really didnt think about iit because if i have him beat hes either gonna muck or show rather than being so aggressive with it

Alex said
this is an easy fold because you're going broke here a lot calling this raise because when you call, the pot's half your stack. I think you're raise/fold on the flop. Folding this is a safe way to go. You don't need to gamble with your stack as it is right now.

Before the antes kick in, I won't take a flop with that many people in the SB with A9. You're only gonna win small pots and lose big pots.

i (now) totally agree i wish i knew thatbefore, people are limping in lookin to catch a big hand and to stack someoen who might of caught a piece of the flop like i did

here is the hand in its entirity


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 (t2410)
MP1 (t4515)
MP2 (t5840)
MP3 (t1555)
CO (t2470)
Button (t3235)
Hero (t5520)
BB (t8165)
UTG (t1890)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, A.
UTG calls t100, UTG+1 calls t100, MP1 calls t100, 4 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t500) 9, 2, 3 (5 players)
Hero bets t500, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to t1000, Hero calls t500.

Turn: (t2500) A (2 players)
Hero bets t4420 (All-In), MP1 calls t3415 (All-In).

River: (t10335) 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t10335

Results in white below:
Hero has 9s Ah (two pair, aces and nines).
MP1 has 9c 9h (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: MP1 wins t9330. Hero wins t1005.

Originally Posted by obga

flop comes im first to act pot is 400 i bet 500 3 folds last guy min raises me, i flat call

turn pot is 2400 at this point i have 4k or so left, i put him on maybe a set wasnt fully sure, but flush draw was more possible his min raise and in position seemed to me he might of been trying to buy a card....i push, he calls with pocket 9's
...

You put him on maybe a set but wasn't fully sure??? So you push!?!?! Doesn't a set beat 2 pair? Obiously I don't get your reasoning here. If you even just suspect a set, logic suggests you play small ball and get to the showdown as cheaply as possible or fold if it gets too expensive.
Following a 500 bet into a 400 pot on the flop already suggests that this guy isn't chasing a flush draw if he's getting less than 2-1 pot odds from you and there isn't any reason to think you're going to give better odds on the turn! Your overbet suggests you want to win this pot quick and will likely try again on the turn so chasing a draw is too expensive. Certainly if he is chasing, you should welcome it as he's paying handsomely for the chace now 4-1 on the turn!
In either case - set or draw to a flush - you're best bet has to be 1/2 pot. If you're re-raised you're in a world of hurt but at least you have a chance to get away from the hand. If he calls on the flush draw he's only 20% to make it!

To answer your question 'how do you read a set?' - you can't with any reliability but there are certain tells. If a limper is calling on the flop you have to wonder how that flop helped him and certainly a set is among the considerations. Any ck-r on the turn is typical of a set or 2 pair especially if the turn card looks like a blank. Most players will slowplay a hidden set on the flop (hidden being a pocket pairs tripped up on the board) but will usually spring the trap on the turn. And as puddlejumper pointed out, some will sweeten the pot with minimum re-raises that often don't make much sense in 'normal' play. Bottom line is only Phil Helmuth can routinely read a set b/c he's the only guy who can dodge bullets baby!

there is no need to bet 500 on the flop.

at the most i bet 400 here, because i dont want to create a big pot/invest alot of my stack into a hand i want to be able to get away from if i feel im beat.

were paying extra for the 500 bet when imo the 300-400 does the same for us, but commits less chips.

i fold to the raise. not worth it

Originally Posted by tightagressive

were paying extra for the 500 bet when imo the 300-400 does the same for us, but commits less chips.

I didn't like this bet either. Aggression isn't overbetting, IMO. It's fear. A good fear to display with a huge hand on the turn and river to get action from people holding marginal hands, but your hand's strength is marginal in a family pot.

Back to aggression. I underbet the pot a lot in tournaments because I'm pretty good at not being a payoff wizard on later streets and I think I get better reads on people.

Pot betting a hand like this in your position sends the message that you're willing to commit all of your chips. Not a horrible message to send only when you're willing to fold right now to any raise.