I here this a lot, "I have to call."

I say it too, "I have to call." But the call's always retarded when I say it.

Tonight, I folded 9-hi in a live game on the river because I was on a semi-bluff when I bet the flop and turn and Villian bet $10 into a $110+ pot after I checked. I put him on a good hand that he couldn't raise after the turn and this was to embarass me. I instinctively got an ear-to-smile and giggled a little, looked my cards again, looked at the board again, and everyone started laughing. I said, "I can't call. Take it." with a laugh and threw my 9-hi face-up into the muck.

Some would say, "You gotta save face." Or "That's a puss bet. You gotta raise." or "You gotta bet the river." But the fact of the matter was that I had him on something that I couldn't get him to laydown, so I quit on that pot. I've never waved teh white flag like that before, but I wasn't gonna insult people who know that I'm aggressive either. I'll play along with that joke once or twice in a lifetime.

There was another case tonight where a good player around my age (22-25) faced a $25 bet into $100 pot with 4 to a straight on the board after the river and said, "Shit. I have to call."

I said with a laugh, "You were the only person at this table who didn't know he had a ten."

Now, Greg was running really badly and had 2 pair on that hand and said, "I know. I know. Just shut the fuck up." and mumbled, "Can't win a fuckin' pot all night. Finally, a hand and I can't win a fuckin' pot." as he was dealt the next hand.

So, my question: On the river, what does "I have to call." mean to you?"

You're not running possble combos and doing exact math here. You can estimate, OK. But there's no denying the large margin of error that varies from player to player.

This is somewhat in relation to Steve's thread, but I'm thinking solely on the river- where you know that any raise is getting called, but you're unsure about the relative strength of your hand. Or you are sure that that strength is very "not strong"- what does "I have to call." mean?

My example in my hand was an extreme and of the rarest of rare situations where I folded and it was a joke. It wasn't an "I can't part with the $10." or deep-thought fold. And my table image isn't a concern with me. I'm of the school of thought where my table image is up to other people and my job is to figure out what they think of me.

i think if you say "I have to call"

95% of the time you know you are beat and just want to see your opponents cards to either A) Justify to the table and yourself that you did have a good hand or B) The bet is so small it is worth it to call to just to see your opponents hand for information. Most bad to ok players do it for reason A; they know they're beat but want to "show" you how lucky you got.


The other 5% you think you have no idea what your opponent has (hand reading isn't an exact science you know) so a bluff is possible.

Personally, I find if you utter those words, you are losing the hand 99% of the time.

Originally Posted by luked

1. They have a 1 outer and will call (and most of the time hit)

I'm solely talking about the river here. All of the cards are out. Do or die.

And I don't mean that the words have to leave your mouth.

This reminds me of a situation that came up in a live game (already in the money) where my flush draw with 65s completed on a river, but the board paired. I was last to act with 2 other players, both short stacks that I just barly covered. They both go all in and Im left with a huge decision on if I should call. If I win this pot Ill knock out 2 players, triple up and be in good shape with the last 4 players. If Im beat by either of the other 2 players I will be pretty much crippled (less than a BB left).

Im thinking I have the first short stack beat, but the second guy looks like he had something big. In my mind I keep thinking he has "boat, boat, boat!" But then a little voice in my head creeps up and says "you got to call, you got a flush! Man up!". So I call.....

....first guy has 2 pair..... but the second guy has 89s to complete a bigger flush!!!

... I bust on next hand placing 5th.

Originally Posted by Greshmahg

When I hear "I have to call", the first thing that comes into my mind is "And There's my bitch. I'm gonna give you a night you won't soon forget".

The only times I've ever said it? Are hands by which I already know I'm screwed (and usually, knew I was screwed from the flop i.e. I knew I was gonna be playing board

You can stop right there because we've all done it with people we know like the back of our hands and with those people the call is more of a posturing move to say that we had a hand of sort. No one's ever made a call on me where I knew that they knew they were beat and didn't think "And There's my bitch. I'm gonna give you a night you won't soon forget". and a lot are the same way, so the posturing means nothing there. It's stubbornness in denial. I never realize that until I encounter the situation again and make the right move- fold.

Originally Posted by Vito

I have to call only means that I am unsure and it is a cheap call.

Yes, but cheap has different meanings to different people. Cheap meaning the bet in reference to the pot? In lo-limit games the majority of these river calls are justified because you can be wrong 9 out of 10 times and make a small profit on the call. Every lo-limit pot has a ridiculous amount of bets in the pot so we're not talking about situations that are too few and far between to require such a massive quantity of hours to make the profits.

Cheap meaning in reference to your bankroll? Cheap meaning in reference to your stack, the average stack, the pot, or the blinds+antes in a tournament?

When does a bet become cheap enough to call when you know that you're beat. The Fundamental Theorem of Poker states that: "Everytime you play a hand differently from the way you would have played it if you could see your opponents' cards, they gain. Every time you play your hand the same way you would have played it if you could see all their cards, they lose. [Insert inverse here]."