Limit, limping vs. raising PF?

**Pok 7's** · 07-26-2006

This is something I've been considering lately and was wondering what you guys think? Is there that much of a difference between the 2? Meaning why bother limping at all?

Everyone limps at times but are you really making much of a difference by not raising? I think most people can agree that the flop will usually define your hand so even going into it wouldn't projecting strength just make more sense?

Basically I'm looking for input here on the pros vs. cons between the 2 in both full ring and short handed games. I would think limping might have a little more merit in full ring but shorthanded would it be much of a difference overall if your VPIP and PFR were identical?

**Steve Ruddock** · 07-26-2006

I did this at full ring for a 3 month period and liked it. It is not "ideal" but it's definetly a winning strategy.

Pro's

You are being aggressive

You are being deceptive, since your hand will be practically unreadable

Con's

People are going to turn into a sheriff against you, killing your continuation bets and bluffs

People will start re-raising you

Other Ideas

Remember, I was playing full ring so adjust accordingly on the following comments. Raising every hand plugged a lot of leaks in my game. It showed me that small pairs and KJ type hands were crap from anywhere but LP, and it will show you the value of position.

I recommend doing it for a set period of time then going back to usual. you will find that a lot of hands you would limp with before you will now throw away without a second thought.

I hate generalities but, If it's good enough to call with, you should be raising

**Phytopath** · 07-26-2006

Poks there is alot of reasons to raise PF,

You have equity, though remember that AK isn't very far ahead of QJ or even 85.

You can knock people out of the pot

You can buy the button

You can represent a better hand post flop

In 6-max games I feel that open limping is really weak, unless the game is just crawling with passives I never do it. I have a VPIP of around 26 with a PFR of around 15%, so I am usually raising, most of my calls are getting in cheap multiway pots from the SB or calling steal attempts from the BB. I do occasionally over-limp with suited broadway cards and small pairs when a couple of limpers are already in. I think if your PFR and VPIP were the same you would either be overplaying alot of hands or your blinds would be ripe for the picking

**Steve Ruddock** · 07-26-2006

My numbers 6 max are, 27/15 so pretty much the same as phyto

I also agree that OPEN LIMPING in 6 max is horrible

**Pok 7's** · 07-26-2006

Speaking of open limping, last night I was in a game where for some reason whoever was UTG almost always seemed to limp. Now would this affect you guys if you had something like KJs or even KJo (not a monster but I consider it a raising hand in 6 max). You're in the CO or OTB would you still pop it against 1 even 2 limpers?

**Steve Ruddock** · 07-26-2006

Yes.

you have position and if you hit a pair your kicker is likely good. they may be ahead with A8 or AT but not AJ, KQ, or AK. they would likely have raised any of those.

you also have the power of fear working for you. Many times a continuation bet will just take, what is now, a good sized pot on the flop.

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