i need help playing A 6 A 5 ect.

bigjare · #1 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 05:02 PM

i have a problem playing A-6 A-5 A-8 you get the point. seems every time i get in these situations i play them wrong or someone has A-J or A-Q. i've come to a point to not play them at all. maybe i'm doing something wrong i dont know. if can give me some feed back i would appreicate it.

Marm · #2 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 05:05 PM

I *sic* never play A9 or lower cold from the table (ie not in a blinds or steal position).

Suited, I'll play AKs-A2s, If I can get a few limpers in front of me, I'll call for the flush, and flush alone (Ok possibly TPTK or trips with my kicker, but NEVER for the ace). But if the field is thin or raised, I'll usually pitch the smaller suited aces, and probably the bigger ones.

Basically (I think somebody with PokerTracker LImit numbers could back me up here) A9o and Lower is a -EV hand.

bigjare · #3 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 05:14 PM

thanks Marm. to give you some idea that i left out here is a situation i was in a couple of times. first one A-5 so i went all 5 cards thinking i had the better hand because the guy who won the hand was just calling my bets,he had A J. the next one i had A-6 and the flop comes 2-8-A. one calls a big bet before me so im thinking he has A-Q or A-J. so i fold and it turns out he only had 8-4. these are the situations i find myself in.

Beavis68 · #4 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 05:19 PM

Those hands are pretty worthless unless it is really short-handed, the best you can hope for most times is a split pot.

Marm · #5 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 05:21 PM

Just to show you how weak smmlish offsuit aces are, I ran some sims using vs34 players with playable hands (Any Pair, Any broadway, Any suited Ace, and any suited connector over 65s). This is a very possible scenario in a Low limit hold'em game. These numbers really just don't mean much, aside from the fact that the first hand to get (+) pot equity vs 3 players, is AQo. Thats how bad weak Aces are. Meaning, AQ is the first hand, when all 4 players see the showdown, to win more than its share.

699,068 games 13.047 secs 53,580 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 26.3986 % [ 00.24 00.02 ] { AcQs }
Hand 2: 24.4976 % [ 00.23 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 24.5717 % [ 00.23 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 24.5321 % [ 00.23 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }

---

363,784 games 6.547 secs 55,564 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 23.5866 % [ 00.21 00.02 ] { AcJs }
Hand 2: 25.5201 % [ 00.24 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 25.4580 % [ 00.24 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 25.4352 % [ 00.24 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }

---

918,654 games 14.875 secs 61,758 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 16.5280 % [ 00.15 00.02 ] { Ac2s }
Hand 2: 27.8196 % [ 00.27 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 27.8429 % [ 00.27 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 27.8096 % [ 00.27 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }

---

787,335 games 12.485 secs 63,062 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 18.4505 % [ 00.17 00.02 ] { Ac5s }
Hand 2: 27.2228 % [ 00.26 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 27.2120 % [ 00.26 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 27.1148 % [ 00.26 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }

---

1,108,276 games 20.359 secs 54,436 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 21.0442 % [ 00.19 00.02 ] { AcTs }
Hand 2: 26.3506 % [ 00.25 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 26.2817 % [ 00.25 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 4: 26.3235 % [ 00.25 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }

bonchkid · #6 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 06:14 PM

muck preflop from anywhere but the button or blinds. If its suited you can play A7+. A2-A6 don't even have any two pair value.

Marm · #7 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 07:13 PM

They do if the flop is A34.

Beavis68 · #8 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonchkid

muck preflop from anywhere but the button or blinds. If its suited you can play A7+. A2-A6 don't even have any two pair value.

That is a silly statement...... They have two pair and trip value, but that is too much of a long shot

KiD[ReD] · #9 (**permalink**) 01-10-2005, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjare

thanks Marm. to give you some idea that i left out here is a situation i was in a couple of times. first one A-5 so i went all 5 cards thinking i had the better hand because the guy who won the hand was just calling my bets,he had A J. the next one i had A-6 and the flop comes 2-8-A. one calls a big bet before me so im thinking he has A-Q or A-J. so i fold and it turns out he only had 8-4. these are the situations i find myself in.

Hi bigjare,

This is why mid A-x's suck. Think to yourself "What am I hoping to flop". Seriously - what are your expectations? I can only see two. Using A7s as an example:

1. Flop A77, 777, AA7, etc

Come on, this isn't going to happen.

2. xxx (of your suit)

So you flop the flush. First off, this will be very rare. Secondly, with 3 of the same suit on the board, you will not get very much action at all, and the amount you win will be much less than the amount you lose playing these hands PF.

ANY other flop is dead to you.

That said, if you really like Ax's because of the flush potential, I suggest playing only A2s, A3s, A4s, A5s, ATs, AJs, AQs, AKs and only play the lower ones (A2s-AJs) in LATE position and ONLY if you have several other callers. Then you have to judge if you have a loose-agressive player behind you, etc. of course... this is just a general guideline. But this way, you are receiving a bit better implied odds if you hit as more peopel are seeing the flop.

And the reason you are playing A2s-A5s and not A6s-A9s is of course because of the rare straight potential they bring.

All in all though, these hands are not my cup of tea. I don't even like AT, AJ, and sometimes not even AQ all that much!

the alex · #10 (**permalink**) 01-11-2005, 01:42 AM

These hands will win you small pots and lose a lot of big pots for you. If you're aggressive enough with your strong hands, there'll be no need to play more hands if the players that you're playing are building the pot hand after hand anyway.

In limit, I'd rather have KJ than A8

In no-limit or pot-limit, I'd rather have 67s than A8.

I say this not because they're better alone, but because I play these hands in regards to position and I know what to do with them and discriminate situations well enough to make a profit. I say "make a profit" because I get caught with my hand in the cookie jar by making "odds calls" on check-raises just like everyone else.