Okay here's something I've been wondering because I've been noticing it on UB last few sessions. You pick up a fairly decent starting hand as far as 6 max goes, KQs, AJ, AQ, KJs, or a mid PP basically something you were planning on raising with. You're at a table where people consider ANY A a monster or any "20" hand, or they thinks 6 max is just raise, raise, raise regardless of their cards or the board. Basically people with VP$IP 50 or better and raising 30% "ish" and will go to 5th street to at least see if they catch something.

In scenarios like this should I be 3 betting them PF with hands like I've mentioned? I mean generally full ring AJ or AJs gets tossed against a raise in front of me although I don't have a ton of hands in on UB yet, Im wondering if this would make me tighter than I need to be for 6 max. As it stands right now I know my VP$IP is lower than where I tend to be....could be cards or laying down too many hands. Probably too early to tell but I'd rather catch it now if I'm backing down to PF raises too often.

Here's an example (although he didn't do as much raising) villian is 45.36/16.94/2.58 aggy post flop I was a little passive I think:
Ultimate Bet
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50./$1
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG raises, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.5SB, 3 players)
UTG bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.75BB, 2 players)
UTG is all-in $0.95, Hero calls.

River: (9.65BB, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: 9.65BB)


Results:
Final pot: 9.65BB
UTG shows 4c As ----Keep in mind he CAPPED with this!!!! And this is borderline common.
Hero shows Qd Ah

Maybe it;s just me but I can't give people who have VP$IP's near 50+ credit for having solid hands most of the time. I hate cold calling, so am I better off just laying hands down or 3 betting and go from there?

I'd still say that you're playin' with fire playing this too aggressively PF. You had great position to call, but then you're giving the blinds a cheap price. I hate AQ in NL, but it's not a bad multiway hand. I'm in the school of thought where I like to take a cheap flop in position in limit. I'll throw in the first raise, but I'll call the raise in position. I've folded AQ in the blinds a lot because I get into so much trouble with it OOP. Same with KQ, AJ, AT, and AXs.

6max. limit is similar to NL is the way where it SUCKS to be on the call and like I said, I get in trouble when I get aggressive with these big cards. In position, you can be on the call going into the flop with these big cards becasue when you hit, the raiser is forced to bet into you and there's little chance you're beat. It's when you're OOP with Ace high that you're constantly gettin' the rectal massage.

Originally Posted by the alex

I'd still say that you're playin' with fire getting this too aggressively PF. You had great position to call, but then you're giving the blinds a cheap price. I hate AQ in NL, but it's not a bad multiway hand. I'm in the school of thought where I like to take a cheap flop in position in limit. I'll throw in the first raise, but I'll call the raise in position.

This was my thoughts also, but it seems cold calling raises in limit is one of those major "no-no's". I tend to lean towards reraise or fold thinking against a raiser (maybe my full ring thinking), however when people are open raising with junk or marginal hands at best, I'm lost not sure if I should be 3 betting, folding or cold calling. You get dealt a hand you're planning to raise with and someone plays junk like they're holding AA.

So are you suggesting cold calling a little more often? It's something I've rarely done, and was always under the impression it's horrible for a few reasons.

I hate being OOP with A high myself and am usually not going much past the turn with it depending on the amount of people in the hand.

AQ's just not a hand that you can play mechanically. It's so player and dependent on the situation. If so wanna isolate a loose player when you're in the blinds or in your cae, you wanted to iso him on the button. But you commited yourself to the pot in the process with a hand that's so iffy if you're best PF to begin with.

I'm usually open-raising or limping into a family pot late. Calling raises or re-raising is where it depends. Generally, I'm re-raising or folding when facing a raise in front of me. I group AQ with JJ, TT, and 99, if that helps you pick up what I'm puttin' down.

Originally Posted by the alex

I'm usually open-raising or limping into a family pot late. Generally, I'm re-raising or folding when facing a raise in front of me. I group AQ with JJ, TT, and 99, if that helps you pick up what I'm puttin' down.

I'm with you on the family pot idea unless I have AK or JJ+

99-JJ I have been known to 3 bet fairly often with.... AQ was almost always a fold to a PF raiser full ring. Calling raises is where I'm "lost" right now, always seemed like one of the worst things you can do in limit, although it seems like people do pretty good against me by doing it.

But when people are open raising with Ax, QJo or KTo etc......I feel like I proably have a better hand then what they're raising with, but it's not a monster either.

Originally Posted by Pok 7's

Calling raises is where I'm "lost" right now, always seemed like one of the worst things you can do in limit, although it seems like people do pretty good against me by doing it.

Yeah, 'cause you're playing a guessing game and that's why I like to make an early raise or fold decision with hands that I know I'm prone to donk it up with.

Originally Posted by Phytopath

Against 3-4 players already in and a raise, I'll still throw away things like A9 or AT. You need to play hands that are better multi-way yet still have good high card potential, KQs, QJs etc. The extra % of hands that you begin the play in 6-max generally come from more steal attempts and more blind defense situations.

Yeah but are you still 3 betting with these hands or will you cold call. It seems a cardinal rule for full ring LHE is don't cold call 3 bet or fold, does it differ a bit for 6 max?

In other words if you have a hand like KQs or even AJs and a loose player raises, with what could be a wide range of hands is cold calling acceptable? I'm not talking about going crazy with cold calling but is it something that's a little more acceptable in 6 max?