TPTK against 2 strong players

OrionPro · #1 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 03:32 AM

Ok, so you have TPTK after the flop, and there's 2 other people involved. You're first to act and you do a pot-sized bet. There's no draws except a flush draw on the board. The other two players are assumed to be very strong, there was no or little preflop action (not more than 3x BB raise).

Now what do you do if you

(a) get raised

(b) get called and a flush card hits. Are you going to represent the flush? Remember the players are assumed to be strong, so they wouldn't call a pot-sized bet with only a flush draw.

(c) get called and a blank comes on the turn

Jason75 · #2 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 10:09 AM

This is very situational . . . .

Is this a tourney or ring? Limit or NL?

Depends on board texture, the players I'm against, the blinds, What my TP is (A8 on a 8 5 2 board is a little scary), what the PF action is, etc.

I could give you some overly general answer, but it's likely to fall apart under most circumstances. Try posting a specific example and I'll walk you through my thought processes in the hand . . .

Fishodeath · #3 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 01:14 PM

I think its fairly important if we raised pf, or limped/called.

Coryan · #4 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 01:55 PM

Agreed. Just too many variables to decide. Is the board T-6-2 and we hold AT? Or is it A-9-2 and we hold AK? What was the preflop action? Who are these players? What is my image? Do I need the cash to.....well, you get the idea.

OrionPro · #5 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 01:59 PM

ok, let's say I have AJo, raised 3x BB, 2 calls, in a NLHE tourney with low blinds.

Board is something like J73, 73 share a suit.

If I get called with a pot-sized bet, does it mean QQ+ or could it be JTs too, assuming all players are tight? And what about KJo, will I get called by that hand?

Jason75 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFish

ok, let's say I have AJo, raised 3x BB, 2 calls, in a NLHE tourney with low blinds.

Board is something like J73, 73 share a suit.

If I get called with a pot-sized bet, does it mean QQ+ or could it be JTs too, assuming all players are tight? And what about KJo, will I get called by that hand?

At the beginning of a tourney, it could mean anything. Your opponent could have a set, they could be slow playing an overpair, the could have TP-MK or WK, they could have middle pair. The beginning of a tournament is like walking in a minefield if you play these hands strongly, as (IMO) the value of TP this early has a negative expectation.

In the beginning, I don't raise weak hands like AJo (actually, I usually fold them in any position except the blinds here). I will play a lot of suited Ax's cheap, looking to hit a big hand like 2 pair, top pair with nut flush draw, trips, etc. On the flop, I don't bet weak top pairs, and will fold to a bet.

Unless I've taken a bad beat and have a low M, I'm not going to push this, because there's just too many maniacs who called my raise with 73s and now are going to trap me for a lot of chips by the time I figure it out.

Beavis68 · #7 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 02:33 PM

I bet about 3/4 on the flop usually.

then bet 1/2 to 3/4 on the turn.

probably against middle pair, FD or tpworsekicker

Jason75 · #8 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 02:41 PM

My exception to my last post is AK/AQ. I will limp into the pot, and if I hit TP, go all in as fast as possible.

Every time I do this, I'm still amazed at the crap that calls me (low PP's that aren't sets, middle pairs, unpaired A's, KQ, inside straight draws, etc . . . )

Coryan · #9 (**permalink**) 06-16-2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFish

ok, let's say I have AJo, raised 3x BB, 2 calls, in a NLHE tourney with low blinds.

Board is something like J73, 73 share a suit.

If I get called with a pot-sized bet, does it mean QQ+ or could it be JTs too, assuming all players are tight? And what about KJo, will I get called by that hand?

I like this flop and only have a small worry about a call this early in the tournament. Calling usually means one of two things, slowplaying or a passive/weak player. I'm gonna believe that the second is true more often than the first. I don't put my opponent on an overpair since there was no reraise PF. The board is very uncoordinated for either two pair or even a decent straight draw. So I put my opponent on TP/MK or a flush draw (who is ignoring the odds...happens all the time). My biggest worry is a slowplayed set.

BUT, since I got called on a full pot bet, I will only bet 1/2 on the turn (whether or not a scare card appears). If this is called, I will check the river and reconsider my options there. If the turn is raised, I know that I am probably beat...but I may call depending on the turn card and the size of the raise...but often I will fold.