[Antneye]

Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s

Speaking of WTF!!!

The higher straight would be J-9 or otherwise known as the NUTS (except for a possible full house since the board is paired)! So you would push it? This is Limit so you can't push it but what in the world would possess you to 'cap' if you suspected a higher stright? Are you getting a good nights sleep?

The scenario I described is one possibility of many. I am not going to give up here when I quite likely have the best hand. When I say "push it", I mean push me perceived edge.....raise.

[the alex]

Results:

Turn: (3.23 BB) 7 (3 players)
ChiTownAlex bets, MP1 raises, CO 3-bets, ChiTownAlex folds, MP1 caps, CO calls,

River: (12.23 BB) 9 (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO raises, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.23 BB
I didn't PM myself the results. I might not have clicked the result box and I'm not looking for it.

I shit you no:
MP1 had JJ for the Jack hi straight
CO had T8 for Tens over 8's

I was pissed and posted it on the forum. That was the craziest table I've been on in a long time.

[Antneye]

So my raise was the correct play, and we lost it on the river......pass the beer nuts and lets deal another hand.

Aces: This is why I said raise. If you constantly take the one hand that beats you and assume you are up against it you will lose money in the long run.

You have to make your decisions based on the full range. I stand by my raise statement.

[Aces-o-8s]

Originally Posted by Antneye

So my raise was the correct play, and we lost it on the river......pass the beer nuts and lets deal another hand.

Aces: This is why I said raise. If you constantly take the one hand that beats you and assume you are up against it you will lose money in the long run.

You have to make your decisions based on the full range. I stand by my raise statement.

I've re-read that statement several more times and it doesn't make any sense. Any time your analysis leads you to believe trips (which = full house potential) AND a HIGHER straight compounding your loses with another raise is ludicious! If you had said make a crying call I could understand a reluctance to fold what you believe is a losing hand but to raise! Sorry Anteye, that's flushing good money after bad! And let's not forget we're not up against just one hand but two! Simular to action where you suspect a bluff from one player, once a second player enters the action there is very little chance he would be on a bluff too. So in this case while one may be betting a lessor hand to your idiot str8, the chaces both are is significantly reduced - raising in this case is akin to denial and making a donkey bluff of your own!

In hind sight I think my last sentence in my first post is probably the most actuate in which I said:
"On the other hand, if your playing in donkeyville there's no limit to what they might be playing or doing!"

[the alex]

1.) I'm not getting in a shootout with 2 people holding the bitch straight in the BB.

2.) Both of these guys played exactly hoe anyone with J9, TT, 88, 77, 79, or 78 would play this hand. After the raise, I felt good and thought I was going heads up. The third raise was an instant fold for me. I knew that someone was playing possum on at least 2 pair or a set on the flop. I was right. It was just the wrong 2 pair.

3.) With action like this, I'm right more times than not.

4.) Don't twist it while you suck it, Antneye. If you wanna be results oriented, I would've lost the hand anyway on the river.

5.) I think that the hands were the other way around. CO: JJ and MP1: T8. That makes more sense when I look at the hand again.

[Antneye]

Alex,

You have me all wrong. I am saying my read on the turn was that we were still good. I originally recommended raising the turn because I felt we were ahead.

I did not mean raise river....no way. Crying call on river when the 4 strt hits.

I was reacting to Aces telling me that I was wrong to raise. I am not being results oriented.

Now wether my raise on turn was wrong is open to debate. Maybe its because I play lower limits where these types of hands are shown down all the time that my gut told me we were ahead.

[the alex]

Oh. I definitely know what you mean. I hated folding this, but the crying was starting on the turn. I would've been a basket case just looking at that river. I think I'm folding this in another case, but calling was extremely tempting. I'm trying to think of a situation or the type of people where I'd call and it's really hard. I'm drawing a blank here.

[Aces-o-8s]

Originally Posted by Antneye

Alex,

You have me all wrong. I am saying my read on the turn was that we were still good. I originally recommended raising the turn because I felt we were ahead.

I did not mean raise river....no way. Crying call on river when the 4 strt hits.

I was reacting to Aces telling me that I was wrong to raise. I am not being results oriented.

Now wether my raise on turn was wrong is open to debate. Maybe its because I play lower limits where these types of hands are shown down all the time that my gut told me we were ahead.

I didn't say you were wrong - I implied it didn't make sense given your read that you could be up against a higher str8! What I said was:

Speaking of WTF!!!

The higher straight would be J-9 or otherwise known as the NUTS (except for a possible full house since the board is paired)! So you would push it? This is Limit so you can't push it but what in the world would possess you to 'cap' if you suspected a higher stright? Are you getting a good nights sleep?

And don't get me wrong - I may and often do have a different opinion but I will seldom, if ever, flat out accuse anyone of being wrong (although in my mind I may thinks so)! There are several ways to play the same hand and while I'll most often do it one way more than any other, it doesn't make that way more right or your way more wrong. It should however be defendable and make sense - I failed to see the sense in capping the turn if you also put a read on a higher str8 and trip/FH. These reads should lead to a fold or at least slowing down to a call.
Of course had Alex called MP1 would still have capped leaving Alex faced with yet another call on the turn and then sandwitched on the river between two raisers. You know sometimes an idiot ended str8 just ain't worth it?

[the alex]

I wouldn't call it a read. It was more an "Oh Shit! Someone was slowplaying 2 pair, nut straight, or a set on the flop. FOLD! FOLD!" feeling.

[Antneye]

Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s

I didn't say you were wrong - I implied it didn't make sense given your read that you could be up against a higher str8! What I said was:

Speaking of WTF!!!

The higher straight would be J-9 or otherwise known as the NUTS (except for a possible full house since the board is paired)! So you would push it? This is Limit so you can't push it but what in the world would possess you to 'cap' if you suspected a higher stright? Are you getting a good nights sleep?

And don't get me wrong - I may and often do have a different opinion but I will seldom, if ever, flat out accuse anyone of being wrong (although in my mind I may thinks so)! There are several ways to play the same hand and while I'll most often do it one way more than any other, it doesn't make that way more right or your way more wrong. It should however be defendable and make sense - I failed to see the sense in capping the turn if you also put a read on a higher str8 and trip/FH. These reads should lead to a fold or at least slowing down to a call.
Of course had Alex called MP1 would still have capped leaving Alex faced with yet another call on the turn and then sandwitched on the river between two raisers. You know sometimes an idiot ended str8 just ain't worth it?

Agreed. There are many ways to play a hand aces, I took no offense, and meant none.