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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > General Poker Strategy > "Callers" example

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av8tor009
textbook example of the fundamental concept of "the only call you will get is from someone who has you beat"
Where would we think we stand here? Bet the river or no?

Cryptologic
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.35/$0.7
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8SB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6BB, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (8BB, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero ???.

Results:
Final pot: 8BB
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
I think that the problem is that there are 2 people in the pot still, they aren't both gonna call with something that you beat. Against 1 player I would make this value bet alot, there are enough hands that you beat against the 1 player.

But you still did gain some info in this hand, all be it expensive I sure hope that you made notes about how both of them played the hands.
Not saying you are going to beat all the calls, I would just expect to beat the majority of the calls, or at least a good portion of them.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 02:31 PM
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That Pok, is an easy check. Probably looking at a weak King or such that didn't like to fold. But A little Hx on the guy may help too.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 02:34 PM
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Check.

Best case, you win a slightly above average pot. Worse case, you lose a slightly above average pot by getting outdrawn. you have second pair. Your raise has no value when you factor what Villian can have. He's not folding a mediocre King and you're getting raised my a diamond flush.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 02:37 PM
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I checked he had Ad 3h.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pok 7's
I checked he had Ad 3h.
And he folds to you bet if you choose to do so. You check and he looks like a dick to the whole table.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 03:21 PM
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i dont like the raise on the flop either... it looks like you are overvaluing pocket jacks... remember JJ is still considered a medium pocket pair, just like QQ
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pok 7's
I checked he had Ad 3h.

So what, now you think you made an error by not value betting the river? Making the best move in poker is not always making the most profitable move! Sometimes the best move is preserving your stack when you're not sure your ahead and may well be behind but the price is right to go to sd! Here the price was 0 or 1 lost value bet. Worst case, you bet, he re-raises bluffing a flush and you fold!
The donk was calling all the way with an overcard and a flush draw on the board and the flush was made possible on the river!! Even if you play according to the Theroy of Poker, it would have been a mistake to ignore the board and previous calling actions of the donk! A check-thru here is absolutely correct - imo!

Besides for the loss of one bet (had he called) you got to look at his hole cards! That has to be worth a (lost) big bet at least!
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Last edited by Aces-o-8s; 06-12-2006 at 03:28 PM.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pok 7's
6 players
Quote:
UTG (poster)
i love sitting at 6max and seeing a new guy come in at UTG and post....to me, he is the kinda guy that cant wait to get involved and hes gonna be in every pot with all sorts of rubbish.

no real value to your questions but thought id add it in anyway
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2006, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pok 7's
Where would we think we stand here? Bet the river or no?

Cryptologic
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.35/$0.7
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8SB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6BB, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (8BB, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero ???.

Results:
Final pot: 8BB

Agree with the others you played the hand very well, no point betting the river here. He'll most likely fold hands that you beat and he wont call unless he'll generally win.

What hands would he raise the flop and then turtle with?

Diamond draws, straight draws,a small K, PP smaller than JJ, or maybe A6 or A3 with a backdoor draw. Of those hands 1 hit, and you'll get checkraised costing you 2 bets, straight draw folds winning you nothing, small king calls costing you 1 bet, PPs 99 or TT may be trying to checkraise you, 44, 77 and 88 may call 1/2 the time as would A3 or A6.

You need a pretty decent read to Value bet here with JJ.
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