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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > General Poker Strategy > NL River Play Analysis.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 09:27 AM
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Push it. Only 3 hands beat you here, if he's got one of them pay him off. I think there are a enough hands that you beat that call here.
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BB is t100
Preflop: Hero is UTG with :3d :5d,
Hero raises to t500

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marm
YOU ARE WEAK AND LOOSE. JUST LIKE AN OLD HOOKER! BAD HOOKER! BAD!
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis68
if he missed, then why raise it? your raise has no value.
I agree with Beavis here. With what's he gonna call a raise that we can put him on. I'm gonna make this point clear about my personal read: He wants you to call or raise all in.

1.) KT- 8 ways
2.) JT- 8 ways
3.) J9- 16 ways
4.) T9- 8 ways
5.) AK thru AJ and A9- 36 ways
6.) Ad8d, Ad9d, or Ad7d- 1 way. I don't know where the 7 of diamonds is.
7.) Ad6d-Ad2d- 5 ways
8.) 88- 3 ways
9.)TT-1 way
10.) AA- 3 ways (and this would not surprise all too much. It'd just piss me off.)
11.) AT- 6 ways
I've got 95 possibilities.

- The $20 on the river is heavily doubtful from Groups 5 thru 7. (98-42= )

- Of the 53 left, he'll call the raise with all of the groups I left out. He wants a call. A raise would look better to him. He thinks he has the best hand and I think that's important. He's gonna call ANY raise.

- You beat 40 combinations. You lose to 13 combinations.

- You're roughly 3:1 at having the best hand.

Calling: You'll get $135 for every $80 you lay- 1.7:1
Raising: You'll get $216 for every $188 you lay- about 1.1:1
Calling is about +$6.75EV over raising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s
His bet was $20 and more than you probably would have made it and expect any call. When presented with a gift...

That said, I'm not doing all of this math here because I'm thinkin' you got backdoored by Aces. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's the gift Everything from the minimum PF raise to the cold call of your re-raise is classic stupidity, but it's also classic FPS. What is the hell is he gonna call $8.50 on the turn and lead for $20 (4/5 the pot) on the river? I'm not saying that this is good, observant player, but with Aces and PFS, a person gets very observant toward their opponent's betting in relation to the pot, so they know how much they can rape them for on the river.

My math could've been horrible and feel free to critique it, but I doubt that my math was off by more than a 30+% margin of error to justify a raise. My gut says Aces and I think that's just the more basic math in my subconscious saying to call and that's what "gut" really is in my opinion, for extra little tidbit of my "gut theories."

EDIT: A number bit.
EDIT #2: Forgot to add the Dead Man's quote.
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Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

Last edited by the alex; 06-11-2006 at 01:42 PM.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the alex
- You beat 40 combinations. You lose to 13 combinations.

- You're roughly 3:1 at having the best hand.

Calling: You'll get $135 for every $80 you lay- 1.7:1
Raising: You'll get $216 for every $188 you lay- about 1.1:1
Calling is about +$6.75EV over raising.
I'm not sure where these numbers are coming from....

He's looking at a $20 bet with $25 in the pot, and has $47 still behind him.

So assuming he is infact 3:1 to be ahead here -

Calling - (.75 * 45) - (.25 * 20) = $28.75
Pushing (.75 * 119) - (.25 * 47) = $77.5 (assuming no fold equity)

So pushing is in fact the better play....
__________________
BB is t100
Preflop: Hero is UTG with :3d :5d,
Hero raises to t500

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marm
YOU ARE WEAK AND LOOSE. JUST LIKE AN OLD HOOKER! BAD HOOKER! BAD!
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 03:25 PM
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Call $20- win $45
Call $20- win $45
Call $20- win $45
Call $20- Win $0

Lay: (20*4)= $80 Get: (45*3)= $135 Total Profit: $55 or $13.75/hand

Raise: $47- win $72
Raise: $47- win $72
Raise: $47- win $72
Raise: $47- Win $0

Lay: (47*4)= $188 Get: (72*3)= $216 Total Profit: $28 or $7/hand

$13.75-$7= $6.75 Henceforth, ergo, and hither to which:
Quote:
Originally Posted by the alex
Calling is +$6.75EV over raising.
I double checked this just now and it all looks right. The get:lay is almost double by calling.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

Last edited by the alex; 06-11-2006 at 03:29 PM.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 03:28 PM
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Call.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 03:31 PM
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Here's a mistake I made: $6.75 is your EP calling over raising. Your EV is +$0.70 calling and +$0.10 raising.

I generally think in get:lay because of sports betting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

Last edited by the alex; 06-11-2006 at 03:34 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 04:08 PM
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I think on the flop he would check a set and strait.
He might semi bluff/ build up a pot with a draw.
He might have a Ten

Id prolly bet the same amount as you on the flop.

Turn, Id bet pot here. If he calls, I might be hesitant to bet pot on river b/c he might have a strait.

River; this is a nice card. The way he played it, I wouldn't put him on set or two pair on turn, so I doubt he has a FH. I think strait/ flushdraw/ TTT is more likely.

However, I dont have the nuts.
My read may be wrong.
He has a large stack.

Therfore, instead of re-raising river, I call.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the alex
Call $20- win $45
Call $20- win $45
Call $20- win $45
Call $20- Win $0

Lay: (20*4)= $80 Get: (45*3)= $135 Total Profit: $55 or $13.75/hand

Raise: $47- win $72
Raise: $47- win $72
Raise: $47- win $72
Raise: $47- Win $0

Lay: (47*4)= $188 Get: (72*3)= $216 Total Profit: $28 or $7/hand

$13.75-$7= $6.75 Henceforth, ergo, and hither to which:


I double checked this just now and it all looks right. The get:lay is almost double by calling.
Erg, I'm still confused. Mabye if you explain where I went wrong in my math...
__________________
BB is t100
Preflop: Hero is UTG with :3d :5d,
Hero raises to t500

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marm
YOU ARE WEAK AND LOOSE. JUST LIKE AN OLD HOOKER! BAD HOOKER! BAD!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishodeath
Erg, I'm still confused. Mabye if you explain where I went wrong in my math...
I don't know where you were wrong. I don't remember the formula. Ask me the holding and rationale in Dennis v. United States (1951) and I'll tell you in a heartbeat, but I suck at math and memorizing formulas.

You're 3:1 to win. 3 times you win. 1 time you lose. So I spelled out all 4 situations and added 'em up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2006, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the alex
I don't know where you were wrong. I don't remember the formula. Ask me the holding and rationale in Dennis v. United States (1951) and I'll tell you in a heartbeat, but I suck at math and memorizing formulas.

You're 3:1 to win. 3 times you win. 1 time you lose. So I spelled out all 4 situations and added 'em up.
See thats why I'm confused, the way you did it makes sense, but so does the way I did it, and we got completely diff answers...

My logic-

For a call-

75% of the time we're winning $45 = $33.75 avg
25% of the time we're losing $20 = -$5 avg
Total- = $28.75 avg profit on a call here.

For a push-
75% of the time we're winning $72 = $54 avg
25% of the time we're losing $47 = -$11.25 avg
Total- = $45.75 avg profit on push.

I think your counting the $20 call and the $47 push as lost money, when in fact that money is returned if you win....
__________________
BB is t100
Preflop: Hero is UTG with :3d :5d,
Hero raises to t500

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marm
YOU ARE WEAK AND LOOSE. JUST LIKE AN OLD HOOKER! BAD HOOKER! BAD!
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