My turn call is slightly profitable if I can get one more bet out of villain on river. I hate checking the river with a made hand. But since my bet screams flush, am I better off checking river here? I fired and he folded. Is it worth risking the check to try to squeeze out that bet?



Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Antneye is SB with
7 folds, Button calls, Antneye calls (2.4:0.5), BB checks.

Flop: (3SB, 3 players)
Antneye checks, BB checks, Button bets, Antneye calls (4:1), BB folds.

Turn: (2.5BB, 2 players)
Antneye checks, Button bets, Antneye calls (3.5:1).

River: (4.5BB, 2 players)
Antneye bets, Button folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Antneye.

Results:
Final pot: 4.5BB

Hmmmmmm.....

You clearly admit to calling vs odds, but with implied odds...

But. I think this gut may have been trying to buy the pot. Position bets? Maybe. But I think it's 50/50 that he leads out on the end if checked to, and 20% that he plays if bet into. So in order to extract those implied odds, you need to check.

But that is something I would be thinking about on the turn, How likely am I goign to get that last bet out? Even if you do get that bet EVERY time, it's still just a slightly better than break even play, I think folding on the turn is the best long term EV move

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It is always a tough situation when you are the drawer calling OOP and make your draw - do I bet or checkraise?

I think with only one player in the hand you need to bet the river. Most players can't lay hands down so he may call you "just to see it", alot of players would freeze up with the flush coming in and not bet a single pair.

I think unless you have a specific read that the guys is aggressive, bets rivers, etc then it is best to lead out.

I would have led out the flop, by the way, since the button didn't raise preflop. Their weakness preflop gives you fold equity you might as well exploit since you have the flush draw to fall back on.

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I think this is too close to a loser since there is some chance he will have a some kind of killer hand (45, K4, A4, AK, K4) or even a better flush draw.

you should be more aggressive on the flop if you want to see the river in this hand.

I agree he needs to be more aggressive on the flop - I would just lead out as I noted, but this guy limped in first in on the button. He does NOT have 45 or K4. He might have limped AK for deceptive purposes but that would be REALLY bizarre. A4s is plausible.

He likely has a mid pocket pair or two high cards - K10, Q10, JQ, etc.
Not that anyone should ever limp first-in on the button, but I have found that when people do it those are the types of hands they usually do it with.

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at this limit?

I think 54s , and Kxs is quite plausible.

he could also have KJs QJs, QTs.

Why aren't you guys folding on the turn?

Yeah, I think a free card raise on the flop is way better than calling.

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Same for me here... I would raise the flop... May give you a free card on turn or give you the proper odd to call the turn without using implied odds... plus it will potetialy genarate more action if you hit your flush.

KJ

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Originally Posted by Girevik
Heck, I've seen people go nuts with middle pair!

Odds to call on the flop are 4:1

Implied odds to see river and river 6:3 or 2:1. He called the flop to see the turn and river. When you the factor in the amount of times Villian calls or raises the river, the flop call is +EV because when he misses the heart, he's check/folding.

C'mon Marm, this is elementary.

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I have to be honest....I struggle with these hands. I though about raising the flop, and instead called.

On turn its a marginal call, but I can't fold it when Im within 1 bet of expressed odds.

For all I know this clown may get into a raising war with me on the river. He was a fish so I felt he was betting with something. Not the type to buy hands. I feared a fold, but ultimately bet out because I thought he would at least call me. I thought checking would be way too risky.


Interesting debate though. I love these hands that we all don't agree on. I honestly don't know the right answer....which is why i posted.