I was recently in a local tourney at a bar (I won woo!) but a few interesting hands came up during the final four and I wanted to hear your opinions on them -

First off - 3 places pay, 4 ppl left. Payouts are 160, 80, 40. Buy-in was $20

Since its live I'll give a good (hopefully) description of the reads I have on the players involved.

J (on my left)- Big stack coming into the bubble, has been playing very aggressive but hitting hands. Has loosened up even more recently as he's gotten a lil drunker and has his girl next to him so he's showing off a little too, the girl is great for tells tho (he was given her a hole cam).

P (across the table from me)- Medium stack at the start of 4 player play. Built a decent stack early in the tourny and had been playing EXTREMELY tight since then. Known to be a solid player from other times I've played with him.

B - (To my right) Short stack at table had made a few questionable plays earlier in the tourny, but had just made a stand against J with K10 and doubled up against J's J10

Me - 2nd chip leader I'd been playing fairly tight, but was actively stealing blinds when I saw the chance. Very recently I took a large number of chips from J to put me in second place when I made a large bluff with Q-high on the turn, J called and we checked through the river and turns out Q-high was good against his broken flush draw (62s).

1st hand - Blinds are 200/500

J - ~ 20,000 chips (button)
P - ~ 8,000 chips (SB)
B - ~ 7,000 chips (BB)
Me - ~ 16,000 chips (CO/UTG/Whateva)

I look down see , say "pump it up" and through in 2000 chips. J thinks for a second and raises it to 7000 chips, P and B quickly fold. Me??

I have a few more hands from this final table to post, but I'll update mabye one a day.

Oh goodie; another series/soapbox opera!!! Episode by episode, the tension and antisipation builds and builds until - taaaaa Daaaa - another Glory Corner climax!!

Anyway - your 2nd chip leader going up against the 1st chip leader who just came overtop of you by 2.5x (almost 1/2 your chips) You've got a good hand but the worst of opponents! Fold and live to fight another hand. Somebody coined a great little rhyme - "Don't attack the Big Stack!" Now with a good pair I will take on anybody including the big stack but not with a hand that needs help - time to quit before I'm in the whole damn stack which in this case is probably the next bet on the flop!

P.S. I don't mind a poster withholding the results from a hand history in order to avoid tainted results-oriented analysis but lately several of you newer posters have been using the Strategy forum as some sort of contest/test/game which I don't think is what this particular forum is for. The "guess what he had" when it's already known or posts like this one where you'll drag it out for 30+ posts before revealing the results is, imo an abuse of the forum. If asked - and I know I wasn't - I would suggest HH should be posted in full with results whited out or withheld but if withheld, revealed after 15-18 responces or when it's clear where the analysis' are going. This street by street bs may have some merit but damned if I can see what it is!

This is almost a complete reverse of KJ's final table hand . . .

First, a couple of criticisms.

1. This seems to be a fairly loose table, KQ is a very strong hand 4 handed, so we'd like to get some action with it.

2. With the smallest M at the table being 10, I think we want to play this hand and see a flop - preferrably against a single opponent (I'm not going to cry if I win the blinds). Raising to 2K effectively makes this an all in hand against either of the shorter stacks, and makes any reraise by the other big stack virtually uncallable (you could push though) given you're OOP.

3. So by raising to 2k, you've significantly increased the stakes here. I like a raise to 1300 much more . . . . if you're reraised, it's going to be in the 4K total range now, a raise you could certainly call and see a flop with. And it's not so big that you won't get action from one of the short stacks without it being an all in hand.

Once we make this raise and are reraised, I think I push all in, here's why:

Reasons to Raise:

1. J is a very aggressive player and seemingly loose player. In the long run, loose players are great to play against, in the short run they can wreck your tournament if they get lucky a couple of times.

2. J has position on us throughout the hand. We are where we are, and that's OOP. So I think if we flat call and miss the flop, we're going to lose the pot. So we're effectively a 2:1 dog getting just under 2:1 on our money. Very marginal, particularly given that an A will flop some % of the time we hit the flop. So I'm hating the call.

3. If we raise all in, J would be looking at 2:1 pot odds, but it's effectively for all of his chips. He'd have 4k if he loses, and would have 13k if he folds. While he has been drinking, he's taken a couple beats here, including one from us. He might be reeling a little bit.

4. J has shown a willingness to push marginal hands, so we may be in a dominant position against QJ, QT, KJ, KT, K9.

5. The "where's my money coming from" question. Where is our $ coming from? I can't tell. Seems like a tough, loose table. Tough to steal at this table - we're going to have to push our best hands as hard as possible. Is KQ a hand to push?

6. J's a bully, and at some point, you have to rear back and punch the bully in the nose. Or whiff and have him beat you bloody. But you gotta make a stand.

Reasons to fold:

1. We've made this a big hand, we could safely fold and still have 14k (an M of 20!). We'd still have almost 2x our closest competitor and be in 2nd.

2. KQ, while a strong hand 4 handed, is still an underdog to any A, and dominated by QQ, KK, AA, AK, and AQ. We're only a coinflip to any pair.

3. Given the chip disparity between us and 3rd and 4th, and given that J is throwing his stack around, we may be better off to fold this hand and hope someone else gets knocked out first. If we get lucky, we might pick up a big hand in a good position and get ourselves back into it. This is playing for 2nd.


All in all, I make a stand here and hope J either lays it down or I'm a favorite (maybe dominant). I'm Rick James, biatch. I'm all in.

Originally Posted by Jason75

3. Given the chip disparity between us and 3rd and 4th, and given that J is throwing his stack around, we may be better off to fold this hand and hope someone else gets knocked out first. If we get lucky, we might pick up a big hand in a good position and get ourselves back into it. This is playing for 2nd.

All in all, I make a stand here and hope J either lays it down or I'm a favorite (maybe dominant). I'm Rick James, biatch. I'm all in.

Remember he's on the bubble!!

Playing for 2nd isn't bad poker for 2 reasons
1. It's in the money
2. He's head-up and has a fighting chance at 1st.

Going all-in on the bubble with 2nd CL chips - kinda foolish don't ya think?

Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s

Remember he's on the bubble!!

Playing for 2nd isn't bad poker for 2 reasons
1. It's in the money
2. He's head-up and has a fighting chance at 1st.

Going all-in on the bubble with 2nd CL chips - kinda foolish don't ya think?

Quick side note I forgot, I've been heads up with J a few times before, and I'm confident I'm the better player heads up, of course when playin a drunk loose agressive player heads up the luck factor get pretty big.

I think Jason did a great job of explaining the variables that go into this descision, so for the sake of speed I'm moving along-

Results for hand 1 in white -

I fold mainly b/c I dont feel like racing right now (I still have chips) and I think I'm at best a coinflip here, and he shows AK

Hand 2-

Alot of blinds shuffling, mabye 10 hands since hand 1 and theres only been one hand of note, where J raised P's blind and P came over the top, J gave the "you caught me" look and folded.

P - ~ 13,000 (Button)
B - ~ 9,000 (SB)
Me - ~ 12,000 (BB)
J - ~ 17,000

Blinds - 300/600

J limps utg, P thinks for a second and pushes. B folds and I look down and see

me??

Don't you just hate it when some LAG drunkard picks up a big hand that dominates your big hand?

Jason is 30% to be massive chipleader, and 70% to bust out. . . .

I've seen this movie, and I usually don't like the ending . . .

Regardless of the results, I'm sticking with my play here . . . (of course, I would have raised a much smaller amount) . . .

Hand 2: No folding equity, I don't want to be 40% to bust out here. We could even be dominated.

And just to clinch it, J uncharacteristically limps in EP. I probably fold with him to act behind me.

Yup . . . . everyone's about even in chips at the top 3 . . . fold fold fold, and hope J has slowplayed a monster.

So I'm sure you called and both players had A9. LOL

i fold hand 2 , big race that could not be worth it esp for all my chips..

he probably flips over 88-99

Originally Posted by Jason75

Don't you just hate it when some LAG drunkard picks up a big hand that dominates your big hand?

Jason is 30% to be massive chipleader, and 70% to bust out. . . .

I've seen this movie, and I usually don't like the ending . . .

Regardless of the results, I'm sticking with my play here . . . (of course, I would have raised a much smaller amount) . . .

I think your totally right, I think raising less here, but pushing over a raise is prolly the best choice. I was playing scared and got lucky (didnt get unlucky?).