Dissect this. Dont care if I won or lost this, just if you like my thinking. I was 95% sure that none of these guys had any part of that flop or turn, even the river. I considered my self ahead the whole time. I bet into the side pot, hoping to atleast take that down if the all-in guy had something, but I didn't think so.

I put my self on 18 outs: Any Ace, Any King, ANy spade, and 3 of the 4 fives since it would be the low end but i guessed it would still be a winner 75% of the time. Not that I was using odds here at all, since I never called once.


Hand #3599143-4889 at Guelph ($.25/$.50 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 23/Dec/04 01:51:50

Marm is at seat 0 with $31.80.
yeodonie is at seat 1 with $8.40.
kenobe is at seat 2 with $1.75.
Trudger is at seat 3 with $19.55.
Randazzel is at seat 4 with $25.80.
TheDaniel is at seat 5 with $21.40.
Hookster is at seat 6 with $19.50.
unmenr3 is at seat 7 with $27.65.
bogey01 is at seat 8 with $37.
Doctor Jones is at seat 9 with $4.
The button is at seat 7.
The partial kill button is at seat 4.

bogey01 posts the small blind of $.10.
Doctor Jones posts the big blind of $.25.

Marm:
yeodonie: -- --
kenobe: -- --
Trudger: -- --
Randazzel: -- --
TheDaniel: -- --
Hookster: -- --
unmenr3: -- --
bogey01: -- --
Doctor Jones: -- --

Pre-flop:

Marm raises to $.50. yeodonie folds. kenobe calls.
Trudger calls. Randazzel folds. TheDaniel folds.
Hookster calls. unmenr3 folds. bogey01 folds.
Doctor Jones calls.
Hmmmmm too many callers. Need to hit this.

Flop (board: ):

Not a bad flop, Lotsa Outs if I'm beat! Gonna bet and try and take it now. 56 or a pair are the only things I see them possible calling with preflop that really hurt me. I'll bet to see where everybody else is.

Doctor Jones checks. Marm bets $.25. kenobe calls.
Trudger calls. Hookster calls. Doctor Jones folds.

Ruhro Raggy, They must have put me on overs, or they have something, most likely a draw. I can't see that flop helping anybody really. I have the nut flush draw, any ace I'm probably good (90% I guess), same with any king, and a good chunk of the straight draw. I'll have to pay the set or straight off if I miss. I don't think anybody would slowplay a set or str8 here against the flush draw, and the pots getting big too.


Turn (board: ):

K, I may be dead to the boat, but that size pot would have gotten a raise on the Flop if they had a set to protect it against the many draws. So I'm thinking there is no boat. Straight maybe, but again, probably would have raised on the flop, but I got outs vs the straight.

Marm bets $.50. kenobe goes all-in for $1. Trudger
calls. Hookster folds. Marm re-raises to $1.50.
Trudger calls.

Ok, Kenobe may have me, but for the same reasons, I think he thinks hes ahead with an overpair or a good ace. But Trudger is on a draw, I'm gonna make him pay now in case that draw misses, becuase I'm 80% sure hes on the flush draw too. Yup, hes drawing.

River (board: ):

Ruhro again, thats a brick! Well, at least I can take down the side pot if buy it here.

Marm bets $.50. Trudger folds. Marm is returned
$.50 (uncalled).

Yup, the draw.

Showdown:

Marm shows .
Marm has : a pair of threes.
kenobe shows .
kenobe has : a pair of threes, ace/queen kickers.


Hand #3599143-4889 Summary:

$.35 is raked from a total pot of $7.60.
$.30 is raked from the main pot of $6.60.
$.05 is raked from side pot #1 of $1.
Marm wins the main pot $6.30 with a pair of threes.
Marm wins the side pot $.95 with a pair of threes.

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Not sure about the river bet, you arent getting someone with a pair to fold.

I agree Beav. But I can't win this pot by checking it here, I need them to fold to win. The pot is big enough to risk the loss of a bet in order to win the whole pot against a hand that would have won if I checked, like a Small pp or A2, A4, which were possible holdings.

Aside from the fact it was a side pot of course. I think the bet would have been correct if I would have been heads-up for the whole pot.

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Wait, you can't win the pot by checking? Ok, what better hands do you push out if you agree that you can not get a pair to fold....

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“There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann

I agree with Bonch, kind of fuzzy logic there.

This hand is kinda interesting because of this kenobe short stack.

I would bet on flop instantly.

Turn I'd more likely check-call. river I'd likely check fold.

Since this guy has such a short stack, and youhave a decent draw, maybe it'd be good to try and get the money in on turn, but I dunno.

Also because kenobe's all in on turn, I would not bother betting the river. i would only do this bet if there was a reasonable chance for no showdown...

Cheers,

Mike

I don't like the turn raise, but I like the river bet because the pot's pretty big and you're not getting raised. He's calling or folding and you were dominating the play of this hand even though you were out of position. You recognized it and took the stab. Trudger called everything. He wasn't protecting anything with the spade draw on board and he didn't value raise on the turn.

Generally, I'd say bad move, but controlling the hand out of position can give you a lot of information and you had a lot of outs to back you up.

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I like your play and the bet on the river got rid of low pairs

Buth I've been drinking for a good few hours and may be complete;y wrong.

Rex

There's some more holes in your thinking.

First is the already mentioned betting the river / putting him on a draw. If you are sure that he's on a draw that missed on the river, then your river bet has no value. "I can't win this pot by checking it here" - You can if he has a busted draw.

Also, you say you need to bet on the river to fold hands like A4. But you also said in the beginning of the post that "Any ace" is an out. If Trudger does have A4, then any Ace isn't an out. In fact your Ace outs should be severely discounted because it gives any 5 a straight and for hands like A2/A3/A4 that low limit players like to play.

"Gonna bet and try and take it now." - Considering how big the pot is, you should never expect to take the pot with one small bet. Betting is correct for other reasons though.

"I'll have to pay the set or straight off if I miss." - I'm not quite sure what this means, but it looks like you're implying that you're showdown bound after just the flop action. I wouldn't say you're showdown-bound yet after just the flop. You're definitely river bound though.

Paying off meant I was in til the river with this huge draw.

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