Bullying with the chip lead

**eclinchy** · 12-21-2004

I'm not used to being the table bully in NL hold'em tournies... if someone could give me some advice on how to play this role, I'd appreciate it, seeing as how I'm still in the role as we speak.

Here's an example... am I looking to go for the small stacks' throats with any pair, or this idea fairly stupid? (I'm guessing the latter.

)

***** Hand History for Game 1331100278 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:8061780 Level:4 Blinds (25/50) - Tuesday, December 21, 20:50:05 EDT 2004
Table Multi-Table(177021) Table #74 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: mysql ( $2865 )
Seat 2: alleffort ( $1665 )
Seat 3: CHEWMAN21 ( $900 )
Seat 4: EvanWithAnS ( $7270 )
Seat 5: papasonny ( $2320 )
Seat 6: cteeup1 ( $1470 )
Seat 7: LittleDoof ( $1300 )
Seat 8: jordanecom ( $1115 )
Seat 9: OhioState95 ( $1805 )
Seat 10: glenellyn ( $1290 )
Trny:8061780 Level:5
Blinds (50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to EvanWithAnS [

]
mysql folds.
alleffort folds.
CHEWMAN21 folds.
EvanWithAnS raises [250].
papasonny folds.
cteeup1 folds.
LittleDoof folds.
jordanecom folds.
OhioState95 folds.
glenellyn is all-In [1190]
EvanWithAnS calls [1040].
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
** Dealing Turn ** [

]
** Dealing River ** [

]
EvanWithAnS shows [

,

] two pairs, eights and twos.
glenellyn shows [

,

] two pairs, eights and sevens.
glenellyn wins 2630 chips from the main pot with two pairs, eights and sevens.

**Beavis68** · 12-21-2004

unfortunately, I don't have a lot of expirience either.

Here is my advice though, you really want to play position when you bully, raising 5x with 22 early is not good, calling the all-in was bad.

Early you need a strong hand because so many are calling behind. Also, there are no antes yet, so stealing has limited value.

Once the antes kick in, I like to bet enough to let the shorter stacks no they will be playing for their whole stack, but enough so that I can dump the hand if someone dangerous to me goes all in.

Your stack was nice you (at least I do in this spot) really want to limp with a lot of speculative hands if the table is weak, if there is a lot of raising, you want to play position well, play solidly, and maybe trap more. I wait until the last few spot to try steal moves, and I want something a little stronger than 22, and again, wait until the antes kick in, or post flop when the pot is nice.

**eclinchy** · 12-21-2004

Another questionably played hand... when should I have gotten these chips all in?

***** Hand History for Game 1331591488 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:8061780 Level:11 Blinds (400/800) - Tuesday, December 21, 22:32:15 EDT 2004
Table Multi-Table(177021) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 7: EvanWithAnS ( $24260 )
Seat 8: poddo ( $11560 )
Seat 9: dswanson77 ( $18927 )
Seat 2: pmilo ( $2596 )
Seat 6: allenking ( $2749 )
Seat 3: JamesbCole ( $7998 )
Seat 10: JimmyRiver ( $5030 )
Seat 1: fastcash1000 ( $3344 )
Seat 4: sha_bing ( $24855 )
Trny:8061780 Level:11
Blinds (400/800)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to EvanWithAnS [

]
pmilo folds.
JamesbCole folds.
sha_bing calls [800].
allenking folds.
EvanWithAnS calls [800].
poddo folds.
dswanson77 calls [800].
JimmyRiver calls [400].
fastcash1000 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
JimmyRiver checks.
fastcash1000 checks.
sha_bing checks.
EvanWithAnS bets [4230].
dswanson77 calls [4230].
JimmyRiver folds.
fastcash1000 folds.
sha_bing folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [

]
EvanWithAnS bets [3500].
dswanson77 calls [3500].
** Dealing River ** [

]
EvanWithAnS checks.
dswanson77 checks.
EvanWithAnS shows [

,

] two pairs, kings and queens.
dswanson77 shows [

,

] three of a kind, queens.
dswanson77 wins 19460 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, queens.

**bboy** · 12-21-2004

Not really much you could have done. If you raised PF, he would have called, unless maybe you went allin, but that would not be worth it. Almost any bet on the flop, he would have called. It's just bad luck that the second queen hit. You could have bluffed the 4flush, but there was a good chance he had it, too.

Not too much you can do.

I'm not the greatest at having chip leads, but half the hands you play in, make them pay to see each card.

**negranu333** · 12-21-2004

moving it period was bad there. you gotta think you're beat. only thing that's gonna call you is trip queens or a flush. bad move on your part

**Beavis68** · 12-21-2004

Agreed, if you are gonna slow play you gotta be able to fold in spots like that.

**negranu333** · 12-21-2004

plus i don't see why people feel the need to be a bully with a big stack. sure you can take a FEW more risks like if you have a strong read one way or another but stuff like the deuces you had are just dumb and reckless. it's more likely he's gonn have a pocket pair than ak or aq which are the only other hands he coudl really have there, because pocket pairs are more commaon so why waste those chips when you're probably a 4 to 1 dog? i don't change the way i play with a big stack for the most part

**Marm** · 12-21-2004

If its earlier in a tourny, and I somehow end up with a big stack, I try not bully too much. You will only force the medium stacks to tighten up, and they will reach up and take a chunk out of your ass. Earlier it is best to just sit and slowly accumulate the chips, Playing aggressive, but not bullying, look towards turning this big stack into a huge one over the next few rounds. Nearing the point where players are playing tight to make the money, this is where bullying can be used. You can pick up A LOT of unclaimed pots around this time in a tourny.

SNG's are another story. They usually only last 4-5 rounds, so If I get a big stack early somehow (either by 1-2 lucky hands, or a slower grind during the first 2 rounds) I like to take control of the game and be making pot size bets into people. Making them choose their tourny life type stuff.

The problem with being a bully is you have to stay away from being a maniac. Calling all-in with 22 is maniac, not bully. His all-in to your raise means hes got a hand he wants to play, and you don't. Don't be afraid to release those medium hands that are worth raising, but not worth calling. Your stack is more important than his. I don't totally agree with the pf raise, but its not wrong either. But calling is.

Just play tough aggressive poker and the chips will come. Don't be a nutcase

**xxdemexx** · 12-22-2004

Mostly in Ring again but does apply a bit to tournaments.

Some of the work I did suggested that it is easier to 'bully' with a small stack!!

The reason is that if your smallest stack and preflop there's alot of callers(not raisers) if you then bet about 1/3 of your stack.. that is actually a sign that you are going to go all in whatever after the flop.. The bigger stacks.. who are trying to keep their lead.. will look at the callers..the amount of damage you can do to thier stack ..(you may bust them down to chip loser on the table)..and consequently they will fold.

Many of you will have 'come back' from a low chip positon in the late stages of a tournament.. and I think that some of this comes from the all-in fear that big stacks have of small stacks.

The other thing is that if you have a strongish hand e.gJK ofs.. you are less likelyto raise if the guy in front of you has a small stack and is liekly to go all in at any moment just to get back into the play.

I think chip bullying is one of these novice myths like 'poker is all about bluffing' and 'slowplaying is always punished' If you see the TV coverage you'll often hear the commentators say that x play was a big stack bullying a small stack, the reality is that on weak flops the first to bet usually wins regardless of stack - this is probably a bigger factor.

Bob

**the alex** · 12-22-2004

22

1.) I don't like your raise at all. You're in a horrid position and with so many people left to act, you're gonna see a flop. Someone's gonna make a positional call and leave you first to act on the flop with your dick in your hand.

2.) If you were so stuck on your hand that you weren't layin' it down for a grand, bet a grand. Sound bad, right? Because you don't know what's behind you at all. Be aggressive, but any action out of position is just bad play.

KK

You're in middle position with a hand and you limp. OK. But no matter how many chips everyone else has, the fact of the matter is that you only have 30BB's. You are committing a good portion of your stack to EVERY pot that you play. In a chip/blind position like this, winning pots without showdown give you a lot of power. There's no need to make efforts to maximize by slowplaying. I live by this and Beavis reiterated:

Why slowplay if you can't lay down the hand?

The advantage to slowplaying is not only to make others put a lot of chips in the pot thinking that they have the best hand, but to also see a cheap flop. Seeing a cheap flop allows you to react in a position like yours instead of act. Granted, you got called by the exact hand that you would expect to call. (Of course QJ would've called in an instant as well.)

Your play with chips is a case of Fancy Play Syndrome. You don't have to "make things happen." You have chips.

PokerForums.org

Welcome to PokerForums.org

Thread: Bullying with the chip lead

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display