Live game heads up

**HaveAStr8** · 05-13-2006

Been going heads up against this guy for about an hour in what started as a 9 player tournament... he's been very loose-passive, with a lot of check-calls when he flopped monster hands. I had noticed he tended to overplay and then ride out 2nd pair to the end of many hands. He almost always bet small on the river when he knew he had me beat.

He has about $110 in chips and I have about $70 before this hand. Blinds $2/$4.
On the button and SB I get J 6 suited in spades and complete to $4, he checks.

Flop comes 9 10 J with two hearts.
He bets the minimum $4 and I raise to $12. (Raise more?)
He calls.

Turn comes a total blank, 3 of clubs.
He checks (I put him on a draw here), and I bet $20, which puts roughly half of my total stack on the line. He thinks hard and calls.

River card pains me - king of hearts. This is the part that perplexed me... he bets $15. If I call and lose I'm pretty much doomed, since that would leave me with only $21 left. I think I obviously represented jacks the entire hand, and I think he knows I would check behind him given the chance. I try to imagine the hands he could play this way that I might actually beat with jacks. 10-8 or 9-8 come to mind, possibly 8-8 although I would have expected a pre-flop raise with 8-8. And this is an extremely risky bet with those hands, unless he's sure I can lay down my flopped pair for just $15 more. If he had made his flush here I wouldn't be surprised to see a bet more like $5 that is near impossible to fold to. I think for a while, I put him on the straight and fold my cards face up. What do you guys think? Call? Push with that blank on the turn so I didn't get in this stupid situation?

**Nightshades** · 05-14-2006

First rule heads up : Never complete when you are SB. Either raise or fold. NEVER call

I would push on the flop or on the turn.

**Nightshades** · 05-14-2006

The problem with your play is that more than half of your chips are in the pot.

Do you think you were ahead on the flop ? Yes ? Then why you didnt push all-in ?
I also did that mistake often in heads up. But now I behave. If I think im ahead I push.
Since I always raise pf when SB im quite happy if he fold because I still win a good pot. I will call only if im drawing. I will NEVER call with a pair.

**pates** · 05-14-2006

Originally Posted by Nightshades

The problem with your play is that more than half of your chips are in the pot.

Do you think you were ahead on the flop ? Yes ? Then why you didnt push all-in ?
I also did that mistake often in heads up. But now I behave. If I think im ahead I push.
Since I always raise pf when SB im quite happy if he fold because I still win a good pot. I will call only if im drawing. I will NEVER call with a pair.

push all in?? lol

he could have a strong draw or 2 pair and slow playing like he said he did throughout the tourny.

pushing all in with tpwk on the flop wouldn't be the right move.

I think maybe you made the right decision to fold.

You really should have raised preflop with J6 on the button imo

**Nightshades** · 05-14-2006

Originally Posted by pates

push all in?? lol

he could have a strong draw or 2 pair and slow playing like he said he did throughout the tourny.

pushing all in with tpwk on the flop wouldn't be the right move.

I think maybe you made the right decision to fold.

You really should have raised preflop with J6 on the button imo

learn to play heads up

**Marm** · 05-14-2006

First off, in HU play there are never any absolute rules. Completeing the SB is fine if you use it for variation.

Basically the rule for HU play is RAISE RAISE RAISE. There's nothing wrong with riding second pair to the river, it's usually best. Forget who said it, but for HU play, you should ignore the top card on the flop and consider the second card as the high card (with the obvious caveats). To go along with the hardcore raising you are doing, you also need to throw them the occasional bone ot make them think you are not a complete psycho. This also makes them think, "If he just reraised with 58, what hand is he checking that he wants me to come along....."

**Nightshades** · 05-14-2006

Originally Posted by Marm

First off, in HU play there are never any absolute rules. Completeing the SB is fine if you use it for variation.

Basically the rule for HU play is RAISE RAISE RAISE. There's nothing wrong with riding second pair to the river, it's usually best. Forget who said it, but for HU play, you should ignore the top card on the flop and consider the second card as the high card (with the obvious caveats). To go along with the hardcore raising you are doing, you also need to throw them the occasional bone ot make them think you are not a complete psycho. This also makes them think, "If he just reraised with 58, what hand is he checking that he wants me to come along....."

True.

But I made my own absolute rules for my own game.
I dont want BB to have Check/Raise choices
I want him to have Fold/Call/Re-raise choices

I know few situations where its good to complete BB except against a very passive player and you want to see a cheap flop.

I consider you need a better hand to call HU than to raise.

But like you say there is so much variances.

**pates** · 05-14-2006

Originally Posted by Nightshades

learn to play heads up

lol... you say that but you just told him to raise or fold as the SB heads up.. sheesh.

HU you play how you want, as long as it's aggressive.

i know how to play heads up, and saying to raise with J6s ON THE BUTTON is not a bad play. jesus what you need to do is learn to listen

**Nightshades** · 05-14-2006

Originally Posted by pates

HU you play how you want, as long as it's aggressive.

wow now thats a good advice.

**tightagressive** · 05-14-2006

Originally Posted by Nightshades

First rule heads up : Never complete when you are SB. Either raise or fold. NEVER call

is that actually a rule? i have a feeling you made that up... because i know there are many, many tournament players who not only i have seen play heads up and limp all the time on TV, dan harrington advocates it in his book.
he basically says preflop you are getting 4:1 on your money, AND you have position after the flop. you HAVE to at least limp, along with mixing in trap calls and raises with weak hands.

i would like to hear why you should "never" call.

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