KK vs. Huge Raise on "Safe" Board

[Coryan]

Okay, before you read this...I KNOW I SHOULD HAVE RAISED MORE PREFLOP. I had a tight table image (playing 16% of hands) and folks were folding to my normal 4XBB raises. I didn't want to scare this guy away and...well, I got what I wanted.

The question I have is...do you ever put your opponent on a set when the board is very UNscary and you have a big pocket pair? I did worry more on the river with the straight possibility...but again, JT from UTG is unlikely. If he had QQ or AA...why limp and call from UTG? And I really didn't put him on 99, 77 or 44. I'm playing low limit NL and have seen this happen with TPTK. BTW, he was seeing the flop 24% of the time.

***** Hand History for Game 4222270667 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Tue May 09 01:03:20 EDT 2006
Table Reely Mine (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: wkclarke ( $24.70)
Seat 2: Coryan ( $40.90)
Seat 3: hitr2345 ( $68.97)
Seat 5: rabbitsfoot_ ( $26.51)
Seat 6: GR1Meval ( $57.17)
Seat 7: DTMracer ( $4.40)
Seat 8: drewcruisin ( $8.75)
Seat 9: tomeve ( $3.59)
Seat 10: Brehon97 ( $12.23)
hitr2345 posts small blind (0.10)
rabbitsfoot_ posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Coryan [ Ks Ks ]
GR1Meval calls (0.25)
DTMracer folds.
drewcruisin folds.
tomeve folds.
Brehon97 folds.
wkclarke folds.
Coryan raises (0.75) to 0.75
hitr2345 folds.
rabbitsfoot_ folds.
GR1Meval calls (0.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4s, 7c, 9d ]
GR1Meval bets (2)
Coryan calls (2)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qd ]
GR1Meval checks.
Coryan bets (3)
GR1Meval raises (15) to 15
Coryan calls (12)
** Dealing River ** : [ 8h ]
GR1Meval bets (10)
Coryan calls (10)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $53.10 | Rake: $2.75
Board: [ 4s 7c 9d Qd 8h ]

wkclarke balance $24.70, didn't bet (folded)
Coryan balance $13.15, lost $27.75 [ Kh Ks ] [ a pair of kings -- ;Kh ;Ks ;Qd ;9d ;8h ]

hitr2345 balance $68.87, lost $0.10 (folded)
YenTung balance $25, sits out
rabbitsfoot_ balance $26.26, lost $0.25 (folded)
GR1Meval balance $82.52, bet $27.75, collected $53.10, net +$25.35 [ 4c 4d ] [ three of a kind, fours -- Qd 9d 4c 4d 4s ]

So, the question is...do you ever put your opponent on a monster hand...like a set and fold here? Of course, hindsight says "YES"...but what would you do?

CORYAN

[Beavis68]

Be aware that you are giving your opponent implied odds to call with almost any resonable hand with your PFR amount.

what would they possible be limping, calling a raise, then making such a huge check raise with?


This is why I play short stacked

[Fishodeath]

I'm not sure I'd put him exactly on a set here, but I feel like his raise on the turn says he has better than one pair.

[Nightshades]

I will admit that I hate to call.
When I have position advantage, I will raise more with a medium-strong hand than to call. To call you need a much better hand. Now its a set who beat you but it could as well be two pair. What do you put him on the flop ? How can you know if you simply call ? You should call only with stronger or drawing hands.

[Coryan]

I'm not sure I'd put him exactly on a set here, but I feel like his raise on the turn says he has better than one pair.

I will admit that I hate to call.
When I have position advantage, I will raise more with a medium-strong hand than to call. To call you need a much better hand. Now its a set who beat you but it could as well be two pair. What do you put him on the flop ? How can you know if you simply call ? Remember that if you simply call he will bet the turn and the river. Thats why you should call only with stronger or drawing hands.

Okay....so raise or fold on turn? And river? Looking for suggestions to play this better...BESIDES raise more PF.

Thanks,

CORYAN

[Nightshades]

Raise the flop, if he re-raise, i call but consider im against a lower overpair, two pair or a set. If he check the turn like he did I check too. On the river I would call a medium sized bet but fold a too large bet.

[Nightshades]

Check-raise on the turn is screaming "Hahahaha!!! Im going to screw your ass !!"

On the flop I would put him on top-pair so you got to raise to see if he really like his hand or not. now on the turn I put it on a set or two pair.

[Coryan]

Raise the flop, if he re-raise, i call but consider im against a lower overpair, two pair or a set. If he check the turn like he did I check too. On the river I would call a medium sized bet but fold a too large bet.

I think you are right. Raising the flop tells me more about this hand. Because I simply called...I have less information about what he is raising on the turn. He could have TPTK and put me on a draw. Who knows. But if I raise the flop, I have more information.

I made the novice mistake of trying to slowplay an overpair. I need to remember to only SP great hands like sets or better (and MAYBE two pair to the turn) when I have less fear of my opponent improving and even if he does, I may have outs. Here I only had a single pair and two outs.

Thanks Nightshades...I think you are right on target here.

CORYAN

[Beavis68]

I would suggest you buy in for more like 30-50bbs until you get a better feel for these tables.

[Coryan]

I don't believe I need a "better feel for these tables" as my earn rate is currently 13BB/100 for nearly 7000 hands. Of course, maybe I am just running good and you can tell from this one hand that I am destine for trouble.

BTW, check out the thread I started on shortstack vs. full buyin under this section.

CORYAN