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  1. #1
    Stu Ungar OrionPro's Avatar
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    Default Which pocket pairs are too low to bet pf

    At which point do you limp in rather than betting/raising?

    I know you can raise with TT but what about 99, 88 and 77?

    EDIT: I forgot to mention early in a tourney, sameish stack sizes
    Last edited by OrionPro; 05-10-2006 at 09:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Poker Professional Girevik's Avatar
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    depends on position and the action before me. I'd raise with about any of those if I was the first one into the pot, especially if I was in mid position or better. With limpers already in the pot I may well just limp with TT.
    I'm CDO. It's like OCD, but everying is in order just like it should be.

  3. #3
    Mike McDermott tightagressive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girevik
    depends on position and the action before me.
    and # of players at the table, and blind structure if its a tournament.

    early in a sng i will mostly play pocket pairs for set value, aside from AA, KK, and QQ. maybe jacks or 10's in very late position. later in a sng when the blinds are worth snagging, i will raise 88+ with position. if i am in pushing territory i am happy to push any pp to hope to steal the blinds/double up via a coin flip.
    unless its short handed or im short stacked, i will not re raise unless i hold AA, KK, and QQ. (sometimes i might just call with qq)
    in ep in any game i usually dump the lowest pairs, unless the game is very loose passive then i will play any pair for set value. basically, if its cheap and the players are bad, i want to get in with a pocket pair and double my chips. in most ring games i raise TT+ with decent position. at 6max tables ill raise with a few more pairs. especaily if im pretty sure these players will let me take alot of pots on the flop. if its been loose agressive i usually play for a set.

    if there is a pf raise and i have a low pair, i have to think about a few things. first off, where am i playing. will this player/these players overcommit with top pair when i flop a set? do they have AA (i want to call if they have AA, that way i almost certainly double my chips) will there be a re raise behind me? there is a pf raise with 3 callers, i would love to come along with 77, unless there is a raise behind me. then i have to fold.

  4. #4
    Chaser Nightshades's Avatar
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    Limp and try to catch a set with most pocket pairs.

    .... what tightaggressive said.
    "In the beginning... everthing was even money"
    Mike Caro

  5. #5
    Chaser Coryan's Avatar
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    Default Here's What Works For Me:

    I raise 98% of the time when first in with AA, KK, QQ or JJ. I limp from early position with TT and fold to any serious raises. I fold 99 or less from early position 98% of the time.

    From the middle, I raise AA - 88 when first in. Otherwise I simply call with these hands. I occasionally call raises with 77 but usually fold all other pairs to a 4XBB raise or larger. I will limp from middle with any pair, but fold all but 88 or better to a decent raise behind me.

    From late position I will raise AA-66 when first in and raise all other pairs about 50% of the time. If I don't raise, I will limp any of the pairs 22 - 55. If first in on the button, I will always raise any pair...I never limp first in on the button.

    I will RR about 50% of the time w/ AA - QQ and occasionally with JJ or TT depending on position, players, etc.

    With small pairs, 22 - 66, I fold to any bet after the flop if I did not hit my set and there are overcards. Keep in mind that I limped w/ these small hands, so even if I am an overpair, I have to worry about the blinds hitting a low straight.

    I might stick around with KK-88 as second pair IF I have reason to believe they are good...but I do not like to gamble a lot if there are overcards on the board.

    Interestingly, my stats show me with a positive earn rate or very near break even on all pairs except 99 and 88. These are the two that get me in trouble. I used to play them similar to TT from early position, but I have stopped. I have about 7000 hands in database, so I have had each pair about 25-35 times. Not a huge database, but informative nonetheless.

    CORYAN

    BTW, QQ is showing my best earnings...almost double what I have made with the second place AA.

  6. #6
    Banned Irexes's Avatar
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    I'm a habitual limper with AA utg. Very dangerous, but I'm addicted.

    MTTs I raise QQ, limp JJ and fold TT to a raise. Unless I don't for any number of reasons.

  7. #7
    Chaser Nightshades's Avatar
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    With AA,KK,QQ I flat call UTG and re-raise if its raised by mid or late position
    "In the beginning... everthing was even money"
    Mike Caro

  8. #8
    Chaser Coryan's Avatar
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    You limp-raisers from UTG are risking a bit if playing at the low limits. I have seen all sorts of junk call these reraises. The other day there was a limp from UTG, 4XBB raise from MP1 and four callers...UTG RRed 5X the orginal raise and FOUR of the five CALLED his RR. If I have AA, the last thing I want is four callers! I know this is unusual, but it is not unusual for 4-5 more to limp in when UTG limps.

    Hey, when I get RRed by the UTG limper, I will only call with my pocket pairs and hope to bust your aces (did it once w/ TT...felt so good).

    That said....I did limp/RR my AA once and more than doubled my stack! hehe

    BTW, the AA still held up in the first scenario.

    CORYAN

  9. #9
    Poker Professional Eclipse86's Avatar
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    TT+ raise from any position.
    22-99 limp in and play for set value.
    88 and 99 raise if u have position.
    QQ+ re-raise pf.

  10. #10
    Stu Ungar OrionPro's Avatar
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    Thanks all!

    what means "having position" btw?

    I saw that in HoH and wasn't really sure what position exactly he meant.

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