Yup, I screwed the Pooch every way till tuesday on this one.

Final Villian is TAA

Tell me how you play this differently?

Ultimate Bet
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50./$1
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $23.15
UTG+1: $56.30
UTG+2: $43.65
MP1: $41.95
MP2: $6.30
MP3: $47.25
CO: $31.65
Hero: $44.60
SB: $21.40
BB: $54.80

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is Button with
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls (3.5:2), UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls (5.5:2), MP2 folds, MP3 calls (7.5:2), CO calls (9.5:2), Hero calls (11.5:2), SB calls (13.5:1.5), BB calls (15:1).

Flop: (16SB, 8 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 folds, CO raises, Hero calls (19:2), 2 folds, UTG calls (21:2), UTG+1 calls (23:2), MP1 calls (25:1).

Turn: (13BB, 5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls (14:1), Hero raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls (17:2), MP1 calls (19:1), CO calls (20:1).

River: (21BB, 4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls (22:1), 2 folds.

Results:
Final pot: 23BB
Hero shows 4c Ac
UTG+1 shows KK

Preflop: I hate coldcalling, but with a suited A on the button with this many players it is a good time to do it. I would have to hit a GREAT hand to put any money in postflop.

Flop: Fine, raising here is too aggy with this board, I'll wait til I hit my hand to raise this with this many players in the hand - someone CLEARLY has a set here, at the very least two pair. Probably multiple people have great hands. People don't coldcall preflop and then call flop raises on THIS board with 88!

Turn: Your flush is now dead. Your only true outs are the remaining kings assuming that somebody doesn't already have two of the others. Gotta think that somebody boated up here. I would really feel sick to my stomach if I got three bet after raising. It is just SOOOO hard to believe you are good here with this many players wanting to continue this hand. Fold or maybe put in one more call but if I was going to get to showdown I want to do it as cheaply as possible. At best I think you are splitting. At worst you are drawing very dead.

River: Potentially great card but I don't think I bet this. Again, what if you get raised? It is very possible that AK and QQ is out there, not sure why they are not betting. Can ALL these players be that stupid??? Nevertheless, at best you are probably splitting.
I hate to put in a raise on the river in a big pot when:
1) no one with a better hand is folding
2) it is very possible I will get raised
3) it would make me vomit to fold after that raise
4) and I don't think I am value betting since I am likely going to split anyway even if I win

you put in pot odds manually? or did that come w/ HH?

Originally Posted by Eclipse86

flop is a fold for me.
But u do have position, and a ton of callers before you.. so i guess its ok..
not something i would have done tho..
i dont think u will flop the flush draw or 2pair/trips with the 4 enough to justify a pf call here. or maybe u do?

There were 5 players committed before got to hero, creates huge odds for blinds, almost certainly going to be 8 way pot. Problem is if say an A flops with backdoor flush and straight draws, the pots odds are so high it will be tempting to stick around - gotta have discipline to be able to get away when the odds/cards warrant it!
I can tell you that live I would call PF every time, online I may not want to get involved, but it's either a slight edge or a slight mistake to call preflop, the postflop play is much more important.

Originally Posted by Eclipse86

flop is a fold for me.
But u do have position, and a ton of callers before you.. so i guess its ok..
not something i would have done tho..
?

this pot is already massive - you have a great draw to the nuts going, you can't fold this flop yet - if the board pairs then you can get out - treat this huge pot almost like an omaha hand - keep drawing while you are still drawing to the nuts, but if you aren't drawing to the nuts or already have the nuts then get the hell out!

Preflop I don't cold call with these hands regularily but if you can get 8 to the flop I would definately play this, obviously folding unless you pick up a big draw or 2 pair.


Flop is an easy call, you are getting 19:2 with 9 outs to the nuts folding here is a major, major, major mistake.

Turn is a good card, you now have top trips, the only hands that beat you are AK, AQ (which you are dead to), KK/QQ (which you have 4 outs against), and JT which you have 14 outs against. I probably wouldn't raise here myself, the pot is already huge and you may yet still be behind, you will get calls by worse hands but no better hand is folding here.

River yeah I would definately bet, but would probably be sick if it was 3 bet back to me.

I'm thinking along the same lines as Beavis...Raise the flop. You have a decent hand with draws to the nuts at this point...the board pairing on the turn would hurt a little but since it improves your hand it's still a good card.

With the way the play is so far, I don't think it's any more likely that somebody has a boat (somebody stated that the second K shut out your FD) then somebody playing the str8 super strongly. Even with this board, I'm not that worried about a boat (although it would enter my mind, I would have to see far more betting for be to think about it seriously). Either way, I find it funny that the guy who had the second nuts is the most passive player at the table...

Ummmmmm, did you guys notice that your hand on the turn is now AAAKQ? Your 4 doesn't even play. With 8 players seeing the flop, all of them coldcalling two bets, the odds of one of those players having the case A is astronomical. At best you are split against that A (who isn't folding) and screwed if he has AQ AK (which are coldcalling type hands for people) or hits his kicker on the river.
I'm way more pessimistic about this turn than you guys are. IMO you are being jaded by the fact that it DIDN'T turn into a rasing war and you saw the river cheap. In a hand with 8 players, 7 coldcalling, with this board it would normally be a raising war. The hand was played very passively. In my usual live 4-8 game this turn is getting capped by two or more players. I think raising this turn is complete lunacy. Calling a single bet is fine but if it turn into a raising war I am out.