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05-08-2006, 02:46 AM
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Check Raiser
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 708
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Limit hand - baby flush on turn
Live $4-8 limit game. Usual parade of loose-passives.
I have  on the button. There are 3 limpers, I limp, blinds complete. 6 players see the flop:
SB check, BB check, UTG bets $4, Mp1 calls, CO calls, I call, SB folds, BB calls.
Turn (5 players):
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, CO now bets $8, I call (?), BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.
River: (5 players):
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, CO bets $8, I ?????
I know that everyone will say raise the turn, and I don't want to present my reasoning yet, but I thought it was the right play to just call and still do.
Thoughts on turn and river play???
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Originally Posted by backdoor
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05-08-2006, 07:59 AM
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Poker Professional
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,735
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I think raising the turn might have driven out BB, UTG and MP1 (which is also my guess as to your reasoning for not raising) and you'll make more $ should your hand be the best. Seeing as you have them pegged as loose passive they'll probably stick around, UTG looks like he has a piece if the board and might to decide to call down as long as nobody shows much aggression. So I think the flat call might not be a bad idea.
The river I think I'd just call as well for the same reasoning as the turn play and if someone check raises we save an extra bet. Not the best card to have hit against a bunch of loose players and there is the possibilty that that 2 could have helped someone beat your flush, (assuming we're not against a higher flush already).
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05-08-2006, 08:02 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: chi town
Posts: 802
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this actually isnt played out bad...
I would have re raised the turn but...by not doing so you gained a couple extra bets.
Im sure you had the best hand...and the river...I raise
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05-08-2006, 08:53 AM
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Poker Hustler
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,161
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Well raising or calling on the turn depends on the people left to act, call the bets.
Are they the type that will call 2 cold with  or  ? Are they the type that will chase a straight even with 3 to flush on the board? If they are then raising is obviously the right play. The thing is here that most of the big hearts are gone, making calling a better play.
Again I would call the river for the exact same reason, I would imagine you are winning here most of the time but raising gains you only 1 BB and obviously loses you alot more when you are beat and get 3 bet.
The only street that I would really raise is the flop for the free card, but then the whole hand obviously plays alot differently.
Last edited by Phytopath; 05-08-2006 at 09:00 AM.
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05-08-2006, 09:51 AM
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Poker Expert
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,296
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I think you have to raise the turn because just calling gives someone with a single heart a cheap shot at cracking you.
I am probably raising the river depending on wether I was re-raised on the turn.
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05-08-2006, 12:48 PM
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Check Raiser
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phytopath
The only street that I would really raise is the flop for the free card, but then the whole hand obviously plays alot differently.
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Well, I disagree here. The whole idea of the free card play is to raise the flop to save half a bet if you don't hit your flush on the turn. Great play if you are against 1 or 2 , maybe 3 players. But against this many players with a big draw like this I just call it on the flop because you want tons of people to come along if you hit, If you hit you are probably good as long as another heart doesn't come on the river.
I think if I raised the flop a bunch of people drop out. I also don't want to get reraised by the original bettor, this is a board where someone easily could flop top two pair. But I may be wrong on this, so I'd like to hear your thoughts.
__________________
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Originally Posted by Beavis68
Quit playing poker.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by backdoor
First of all you foul mouthed imbecile. I think the value of forums is immeasurible. Forums are the one place you can learn the game. Forums are a learning medium. The problem I find in forums are, your post. We are talking to hot headed, juveniles, who have no clue what they are doing. You have to weed through posts such as yours to get valuable information.
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05-08-2006, 12:50 PM
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Poker Professional
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 1,764
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I'm probably calling down as well. CO could certainly have a flush here based on his flop call.
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05-08-2006, 01:06 PM
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NL20 Grinder...
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 7,472
Limits Played: $0.10-$0.25 NL
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I actually tend to call down in this same type of situation. I seem to save myself some money in the long run when someone else has the flush as well as me. If someone else is sitting on two hearts you are screwed, and calling down gives you the option to still win, but without getting into a raising war with another higher flush. I have pretty much always done that when I am at the turn and river with a low flush.
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05-08-2006, 01:52 PM
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Poker Hustler
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,161
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by growlers
Well, I disagree here. The whole idea of the free card play is to raise the flop to save half a bet if you don't hit your flush on the turn. Great play if you are against 1 or 2 , maybe 3 players. But against this many players with a big draw like this I just call it on the flop because you want tons of people to come along if you hit, If you hit you are probably good as long as another heart doesn't come on the river.
I think if I raised the flop a bunch of people drop out. I also don't want to get reraised by the original bettor, this is a board where someone easily could flop top two pair. But I may be wrong on this, so I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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Against loose passives the free card play works really well, alot of people got a piece of this flop, lots of pairs, 2 pair possibilities and also the heart flush and lots of straight draws. I think these are fine situations to attempt the free card play, also you have alot of equity with so many people in the pot and it really can be looked at as a value raise aswell. I find the free card play doesn't work very often in pots contested by aggressive players, since a savy player can 3 bet and force out some players and it makes your draw expensive. In my live games I use the free card play alot and depending on the players at the table I would probably try it here aswell.
I am not saying to always try for the free card, but I use the play fairly often.
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