I got to thinking about stealing a little more and decided to try to start increasing my steal attempts. What I'm unsure of is; at what point, if any do you give up? The BB in this hand I had about 125 hands on and rated as a LPP fish 32/3/1. (perhaps not the best player to attempt it with). I wasn't doing a ton of stealing or playing like a maniac and showing down pretty strong hands.

Actually both players seated to my left were LPP players, I probably should've raised PF...and I really have no good reason why I didn't. Other than the fact that being first to act against players who will basically play anything I'd rather hope to hit a flop.

The last hand I played against this player went like this:

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) , , (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, MP3 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (5 BB) (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (7 BB) (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Hero has Jh Ah (three of a kind, jacks).
UTG has Jd 5d (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 13 BB.

***********************************************

So I figued I'd attempt a steal and possibly beat up on him again as his starting requirements aren't much and I'm in a more comfortable position.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
7 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) , , (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

Now I'm sure there's a certain amount discretion that needs to be applied in relation to everything that's going on at the table. If you're up against situations where you're not meeting any resistance and you're stealing with nothing, as a guideline is it usually better to keep firing or are you better off slowing down at some point?

I find I run into this also when I'm playing overcards also from EP with a caller or 2 behind me where some people will call down with anything as long as they pair a hole card and no big cards hit on the flop or turn.

The toughest steals in Hold Em have to be at a low Limit ring game. In your steal attempt you started to steal 1.5 small bets with a 2 small bet pfr and ended up investing 3.5 big bets at even money to win the small blind against a calling station - I'm guessing he was chasing a flush draw. In $ terms you risked 3.50 to win $2.75 and if the BB had called on the river it probably would have been with the winning hand.

As already stated LPPs and call stations are the worse to attempt a steal but IMO this is compounded in a ring Limit game to the point steals are seldom worth it. In a NL game you can really apply pressure and the treat of all-in whereas in Limit, the states at risk are limited and every fish knows that miricle card is just one draw away.
Steals are of most value - again IMO - in tournements at the higher levels although plenty of steal attemps are made at the beginning levels by the more aggressive players. Why risk a 1/3 of your stack going after 30 chips in the blinds? It's a stupid risk to prove how clever you are and once the blinds go up, stealing will become a lot more difficult for the early maniac once he has earned that table image.

Pok7 - you started out saying "I got to thinking about stealing a little more and decided to try to start increasing my steal attempts." Steal attempts are most effecrtive if they are 'less frequent' and once your table image is such that a steal attempt 'may be on' but not as likely from this guy! That means folding trash a lot early on from steal positions and giving up a SB a few times to show you don't like playing trash even for only 1/2 a small bet. Rocks steal more effectively than 'players'!

That's my 2 cents worth - hope it adds to your thought process.

I appreciate the input Aces and Phyto, again I realized he probably wasn't the best canidate for a steal attempt ( I prefer a rock or 2 in the blinds). While I generally have never really attempted alot of steals in the past. I have been trying to just give it a little more conscious effort was more what I was getting at. I understand it generally works best against people who have the availibilty to actually fold a hand.

I didn't mean to imply I want to steal every chance I get, I do know I tend to generally fold the CO or button more often than not if it gets folded to me. So I was thinking about just increasing it a bit compared to my "normal" style of play. I realize it can, like anything else be overused, my main area of curiosity was more in the are of instances where, you have people who tend to check call, or bet no matter what if they're checked to.

Basically once you start...at what point do you give up inimproved? I don't want to fall into the "flop it or drop it" mode too much but I don't want to never bluff either.

I guess like anything else it really needs to be more player dependent though. But I always appreciate input....This was just more of a "thinking out loud" type post to kind of think a little about my play, and see if I can incorporate other points of views along with my own, generate some outside thoughts, etc. to scenarios that pop up from time to time. This just kinda spawned after the discussions about blind plays and steals I was reading about the last few days on here.

Originally Posted by tightagressive

uh, in limit, at these stakes, you dont steal against fish. plain and simple.

Dosen't hurt to consider the future one in a while .

Originally Posted by tightagressive

uh, in limit, at these stakes, you dont steal against fish. plain and simple.

I agree, but I like the way you played the Jacks hand. The only hand you have to fear on the turn is QJ, so I like the aggression there.

Hes a LPP, he's going to call. Stealing implies the chance of getting some fold equity. As wacko as I sounded in the other thread, I will sit there and fold all day to the LPP to my left.