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  1. #1
    Check Raiser
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    Boston
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    Default Not aggressive enough?

    Should I have been more aggressive towards the end? Or did I leave chips on the table?

    (Sorry for the kludge, couldn't get it to convert properly.)

    PokerStars Game #4753525098: Tournament #23515310, $10+$1 Hold'em No
    Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/04/26 - 20:25:59 (ET)
    Table '23515310 121' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: DeutschLips (5140 in chips)
    Seat 2: Yvraine (3965 in chips)
    Seat 3: dapatriot (4915 in chips)
    Seat 4: bigboyblues (1345 in chips)
    Seat 5: pikfisher (1950 in chips)
    Seat 6: cglinn (2733 in chips)
    Seat 7: Turn'em (1575 in chips)
    Seat 8: ehcard (3347 in chips)
    Seat 9: CaravaggioX (1080 in chips)
    DeutschLips: posts small blind 25
    Yvraine: posts big blind 50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Yvraine [ ]
    dapatriot: folds
    bigboyblues: folds
    pikfisher: folds
    cglinn: calls 50
    Turn'em: folds
    ehcard: calls 50
    CaravaggioX: folds
    DeutschLips: calls 25
    Yvraine: raises 150 to 200
    cglinn: folds
    ehcard: calls 150
    DeutschLips: folds
    *** FLOP *** [ ]
    Yvraine: bets 300
    ehcard: calls 300
    *** TURN *** [ ] []
    Yvraine: checks
    ehcard: bets 350
    Yvraine: calls 350
    *** RIVER *** [ ] []
    Yvraine: checks
    ehcard: bets 600
    Yvraine: calls 600
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    ehcard: shows [Ks Th] (two pair, Tens and Sixes)
    Yvraine: shows [Qc Qd] (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
    Yvraine collected 3000 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 3000 | Rake 0
    Board [9s 6h Ts Jc 6c]
    Seat 1: DeutschLips (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 2: Yvraine (big blind) showed [Qc Qd] and won (3000) with two pair,
    Queens and Sixes
    Seat 3: dapatriot folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: bigboyblues folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: pikfisher folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: cglinn folded before Flop
    Seat 7: Turn'em folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: ehcard showed [Ks Th] and lost with two pair, Tens and Sixes
    Seat 9: CaravaggioX (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    ... can't sleep, blinds will eat me ...

    Quote Originally Posted by KRE8R View Post
    Yvraine is not a "dude". She is a killer female poker player. Pray you dont meet her at the tables...

  2. #2
    Check Raiser
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    Jul 2005
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    724

    Default

    What's with the check/call on the turn/river? You have an overpair to the board... go ahead and bet, if they have you beat they'll let you know, and they'll pay off with lots of hands that YOU beat!
    -You may not know this, but poker is a game of incomplete information.

  3. #3
    Poker Professional Pok 7's's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm not the greatest at tournaments so take it for what it's worth....

    I wouldn't have check called the turn, depending on how he played (if he was one of those people who will bet anytime it's checked to him) I'd consider a check raise but personally I'm betting it. I'm coming out with a big turn bet, unless hes slowplaying TT or a small pocket pair that hit trips we're ahead on the flop. My guess is he has Tx at this point (my guess on the flop is TJ, TQ, TK, or TA)

    The turn might make him 2 pair but with a check call, he takes control of the hand and you have no idea where you stand, even if it didn't help he can possibly suckout on the river. Also if there's a possibility he is on some kind of flush draw it leaves him the option to check behind and try to hit the river for free. I'd stay aggressive here with a pot sized bet, but going with the check call like you did this is my thoughts on the river .

    River pairs the board, unless he has a 6 in his hand he's beat even if he is holding JT his hand is no longer any good I'm extracting the most I can here leading out (or depending on your read check raised here).

    Keep in mind I usually bet myself out of tournaments so again take it for what it's worth.
    Last edited by Pok 7's; 04-27-2006 at 07:29 AM.
    If you're looking to borrow money or have someone give you money in order to play poker online please don't contact me... Click Here for help , and explain your situation.

  4. #4
    PokerForums God
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    Default

    you are either way the hell ahead or way behind, so I don' think the check-call is bad, especially vs an aggressive opponent,

    the J on the turn sucks.

  5. #5
    Check Raiser ypsieast's Avatar
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    Default

    Preflop: good raise; 90% of the time AA/KK reraise you, but villain just calls.
    Flop: (pot is 450) Decent flop. You have overpair to the board. FD and SD are possible so you are right to lead out. 300-450 is good. Because of the draws, a set or 2 pair probably raises you here 75% of the time. Smooth call, I'm feeling pretty good that I'm still ahead. Even 78 probably raises.
    Turn: (pot 1050) J is a scare card, but I'm only worried about JT and KQ, and really, only KQ of spades is still in this hand. I would still bet out. 1/2 to 3/4 size bet is good to deny the FD odds. Again, a set probably raises. 2 pair might be cautious and just call, but you have outs vs. 2 pair. All hands that are beating you here, IMO are unlikely. Even KQ or 78 might worry that you have Ax of spades.
    River: great card. Value bet. If villain has KQ, 78 or a set, so be it. I think most of the time you have the best hand.
    "There is a good chance I gave you a very bad description of something that doesn't work."

  6. #6
    PokerForums God
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    Default

    you may have the worst hand, but what hands that beat you are calling a river bet?

  7. #7
    Check Raiser ypsieast's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis68
    you may have the worst hand, but what hands that beat you are calling a river bet?
    Very dedpendent on your read of the opponent. AJ, KJ, AT, JT perhaps. Betting the river also serves to control the cost of showdown.
    "There is a good chance I gave you a very bad description of something that doesn't work."

  8. #8
    Poker Professional Pok 7's's Avatar
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    Default

    I think it depends on the player, the villian might have put us on AK or AQ (depending on our image and how much he pays attention) and think they have the best hand if they pair a hole card and don't see and A, K or Q on the board. If he has TPTK or TPGK he might just be value betting thinking he has the best hand. If I were the villian I would've went through the hand like this....

    The flop bet might have been a continuation bet if I'm up against a big A so I'll call.

    Check on the turn, I'm more likely to believe I'm just be up against overcards here most likely AK, or AQ judging form the PF raise and you're giving up on the semi bluff.

    River: Check again...missed their hand and are holding just over cards so I'll value bet.

    Which is why I think if anything a check raise is good for the river, the only then we need to fear is him holding a 6. Or unless he's extremely passive the rare chance he has AA or KK. Any pair/2 pair he may have had is counterfited by the river. He may just think we're trying to bluff at the pot with something like AK, and pay us off.
    Last edited by Pok 7's; 04-27-2006 at 08:39 AM.
    If you're looking to borrow money or have someone give you money in order to play poker online please don't contact me... Click Here for help , and explain your situation.

  9. #9
    Check Raiser
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    Default

    My thought, once the jack hit on the turn, was that he had a made straight and was trying to coax chips out of me with those little bets. With just an overpair, I didn't want to charge full tilt into a trap like that, but neither was I going to fold in case he didn't have the straight.
    ... can't sleep, blinds will eat me ...

    Quote Originally Posted by KRE8R View Post
    Yvraine is not a "dude". She is a killer female poker player. Pray you dont meet her at the tables...

  10. #10
    Fish
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    Default

    This guy did not hit a strait on the turn. You're saying he's holding one of the two remaining Queens in the deck AND called a gutshot on the flop? I don't buy it.

    If he does have a strait, he flopped it with 78. If he has a hand that beats you on the turn, it's 78, JT, or 66. 99+ is highly unlikely IMO - he was in the CO with one limper and didn't raise?

    The turn, then, is not that much of a scare card, at least not to you. You have to like the Jack on the turn (except for when he's playing JT). If he flopped the nuts with 78, then you have 7 outs to make a better strait. If he was playing JT and hit two pair on the turn, then you have 16 outs to make a better two pair, a set, or a strait. If he hit bottom set on the flop with 66, then you now have 10 outs to a better set or a strait.

    In any case, I think a raise on the turn would clue you in as to what is really going on.

    But seriously, I don't see the strait as a plausible threat here and the two-pair/bottom set catch is only a slight concern. TPGK/TK on the flop or turn (with some kind of draw) is likely. The semi bluff with the nut flush draw (and overcard(s)) is also a fair possibility. Just about every reasonable hand he could be holding on the turn you have beat IMO.

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