I had just under 100 hands on the other player, at this point he was a LP-A player with a VP$IP over 50%. When he just called the 3 bet my read was he paired a hole card.

Wasn't sure if the turn card helped, although I really didn't like it I wasn't sure if it helped him or not since he plays alot of hands. Him capping got me concerned but figured the Q's would help and possibly an A.

River was a crying call

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
UTG calls, 7 folds, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) , , (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has As Ah (one pair, aces).
UTG has Jd Tc (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: UTG wins 15.25 BB.

hmm.. i dont really like the 3 bet on the turn..
the only hand that u really beat here that would have played it like he did pf and on the flop is KQ.

by the way he played it on the flop, and his turn raise.. im thinking KJ or K10 here.

Originally Posted by Eclipse86

hmm.. i dont really like the 3 bet on the turn..
the only hand that u really beat here that would have played it like he did pf and on the flop is KQ.

by the way he played it on the flop, and his turn raise.. im thinking KJ or K10 here.

Ditto on Eclipse's comments except I was thinking Kx on flop and K-T on turn. The J-T also makes sense for a loose player.

The reason I 3 bet the turn was he raised me on the flop but just called my 3 bet...I was thinking it was the only way to know if the turn helped him or not..it was more for information. Not a good idea though??

When he capped it I kinda figured it helped.

Well, I have a different take on this but it may be because I play somewhat higher limits with generally better players. So even though it may not apply to this hand, I'll yap about it anyway in case somebody finds it useful.

The guy limped UTG, usually people don't do this with KK or JJ. He certanily doesn't have K4 or J4. He could have KJ or 44 since he is so loose preflop, but could easily have AK/KQ/K10/K9s/JQ/etc with a 50% VPIP. Every other hand besides KJ or 44 you have beat on the flop. His flop betting obviously means he caught something, most likely he has a K, or maybe Q10. Most players wouldn't raise here with just a J, but he might. So overall statistically you are a clear favorite on the flop against his range of hands so the flop three bet is clearly correct. My conclusion when he raises would be Kx, maybe Q10. Alot of players slowplay 44 so I bump that down.

The problem is that the turn is a card which creates an openended straight draw for anyone with a Q and now there is a two flush on the board. If I had a hand like KQ or a hand like , where I had a pair plus a flush or straight draw, I would cap the turn and take a free showdown unimproved and bet if improved.

This is the "raising for a free showdown" play which is a bit advanced. The idea is that you (the villian in this hand I mean) are going to call the river anyway with those hands because the pot is so big- 1 bet - and that it would be very rare for someone to bet into you on the river after you cap. So you might as well cap the turn and use that 1 bet there and then check the river. If you catch your draw you bet and make an extra big bet.

We know the guy is loose but we don't know he sucks at post flop play. He could easily have a piece of the board and a draw when he raises on the turn. So I don't necessarily think it is chip spewing by you when you three bet the turn.

The main point of this longwinded post is that the previous posters seems to think he clearly has a made two pair or better hand on the turn, I think a fairly large percentage of the time he is raising his draw, in which case your play was exactly correct.

Originally Posted by Pok 7's

The reason I 3 bet the turn was he raised me on the flop but just called my 3 bet...I was thinking it was the only way to know if the turn helped him or not..it was more for information. Not a good idea though??

When he capped it I kinda figured it helped.

In a limit game when you have an overpair with this board headsup, you don't need "information" on the turn. You aren't folding anyway, you'll get your "information" at showdown when you see his cards! Were you really going to check/fold on the river if you didn't like the "information" you gathered? I don't think so! (the pot is way too big to do that)

All you should care about on the turn is whether or not you should be value raising with the best hand or do a calldown plan if you think you might be beat. Unfortunately, as my post above tries to point out, it is a difficult decision in this hand and I don't think as clear cut as the first few posters seem to think.

Originally Posted by Phytopath

This is the kind of situation where you are either way ahead or way behind, I am not sure if my analysis is tainted by the results or not (please Poks don't include them right away next time ).

Alright I'll hold off next time before I post them....but you guys aren't supposed to check them till after you go throught the hand

Originally Posted by growlers

The main point of this longwinded post is that the previous posters seems to think he clearly has a made two pair or better hand on the turn, I think a fairly large percentage of the time he is raising his draw, in which case your play was exactly correct.

The main reason I was thinking 2 pair (or he made the str8 which I thought of but didn't mention in my first post - should have as it was obvious) was because after his re-raise on the flop, the villian calmed down and just called the 3 bet - indicates to me he has somthing but isn't so sure it's the best just yet and needs to improve. Once he was willing to cap on the turn, I figured he was now very sure he was ahead - ergo 2 pair or the str8.

With a goose-loose player with a VP$IP of 50%, I don't give a lot of credit to sufficticated play or advanced concepts of poker theroy so will generally use the KISS principle - Keep It Simple Stupid! While a few of them may raise a draw, the majority call along until it's made. About the only 'sufficticated' moves they (over)use, is the slowplay/trap. Raising for a freecard/showdown isn't something most fish would even think of as a tactic but would regard it as a bluff.
Anyway I've stopped playing Limit HE online as these damn fish swim in packs and if one doesn't suck you out another will - it just got too hard to keep off tilt and play good poker against so many calling stations. Now I play the donks on the SnGs - lol