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  1. #1
    Check Raiser growlers's Avatar
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    Default Advice on a 2-4 hand, please!

    Read on villian was 35% VPIP and weak, but limited number of hands. Blinds folded to steals alot.
    What's the best line here on each street? In some ways I felt like each street could be argued, but in other ways I'm satisified with my play, so like to get some other thoughts. Thanks.

    PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

    Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
    2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

    Flop: (6.50 SB) , , (3 players)
    BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, Hero calls.

    Turn: (7.25 BB) (2 players)
    UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

    River: (7.25 BB) (2 players)
    UTG+2 bets, Hero folds.

    Final Pot: 8.25 BB

    Results in white below:
    UTG+2 doesn't show.
    Outcome: UTG+2 wins 8.25 BB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis68
    Quit playing poker.
    Quote Originally Posted by backdoor
    First of all you foul mouthed imbecile. I think the value of forums is immeasurible. Forums are the one place you can learn the game. Forums are a learning medium. The problem I find in forums are, your post. We are talking to hot headed, juveniles, who have no clue what they are doing. You have to weed through posts such as yours to get valuable information.

  2. #2
    Banned manguydude21's Avatar
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    Default

    pf = call

    flop = flat call the c/r and hope a for a good turn

    turn = fold

  3. #3
    Banned pates's Avatar
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    Default

    PF = FOLD

    no offence but there is nothing right about that play. He clearly has you beat and 10 handed NO WAY should you have even thought about flat calling preflop let alone raising. jeees!

  4. #4
    Poker Hustler
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    Default

    PF looks good, I'll do the same thing to isolate a limper.

    Flop, I like the bet, 3-bet may be spewing a bit to be honest. Then when he caps, you'll need a pretty good read to stay in there with him. Would he cap a flush draw OOP? Would he cap with ? or ? You are a bit ahead of these hands

    Now when he checks the turn he may be scared of all the flop aggression.

    The river meh, you are probably quite a bit behind here. Does he fold if you raise here? 7-1 to call here, folding is probably the best play here IMO aswell.

  5. #5
    Banned manguydude21's Avatar
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    oops...see this is wat happens when u dont read directions

    dint see it was 10 handed- i only play 6 man so i asumed

    ya..fold pf

  6. #6
    Check Raiser growlers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pates
    PF = FOLD

    no offence but there is nothing right about that play. He clearly has you beat and 10 handed NO WAY should you have even thought about flat calling preflop let alone raising. jeees!
    I would never have though about flat calling against a single weak up front limper with a hand that needs volume to be profitable. Remember that K10s is a easily dominated hand and you don't want to be caught just calling with this in a small volume pot, you need alot of players for the straight and flush aspects to be profitable. So when it gets to you in the CO after a weak first-in limper it is a raise or fold situation.

    With that part understood, I would happily raise a loose weak up front first-in limper with K10s to isolate him, this is a standard play at the middle limits online. If you don't do plays like this you are leaving money on the table. I am essentially doing a blind steal with one weak limper present to either push out or out flop. Actually loose players like this limp first in with a wide range of hands, there is a very good chance I am ahead preflop.
    Unfortunately he didn't go away, the flop sorta hit me, and hence my need for advice.

    preflop EV:
    raising > folding >>>> calling

    I will await more replies before I give any more of my reasoning but I wanted to address the prelop issue before everybody got up in arms about it and just talked about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis68
    Quit playing poker.
    Quote Originally Posted by backdoor
    First of all you foul mouthed imbecile. I think the value of forums is immeasurible. Forums are the one place you can learn the game. Forums are a learning medium. The problem I find in forums are, your post. We are talking to hot headed, juveniles, who have no clue what they are doing. You have to weed through posts such as yours to get valuable information.

  7. #7
    PokerForums God Marm's Avatar
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    Yes, Raise/Fold > calling, but that is upto you, reads and such dependant, and if your just feeling funky enough to mix it up a little.

    Flop, not sure what you are smoking, BUT YOU JUST GOT CHECKRAISED BY A LOOSE PASSIVE PLAYER. My first reaction to that is "oh fuck me". At best I'm folding, at worst I'm calling.

    I think on the turn he went for another CR and missed, and didn't want to try it agin on the river. My guess is he limped iwth A9o or 99 and hit.
    Marm is back, maybe. Been off for 3 years. Rusty as Hell.

    Luck is a Residue of Design.

  8. #8
    Poker Professional Pok 7's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marm
    Flop, not sure what you are smoking, BUT YOU JUST GOT CHECKRAISED BY A LOOSE PASSIVE PLAYER.
    I'm kinda thinking what Marm is thinking on the flop here, with a checkraise and him capping the flop from someone you have a read on as a weak player.

    In my limited experience, I wouldn't think he'd get that aggressive against a PF raiser.. on a flop with A and K in it. I'd guess he hit a set of 9's or POSSIBLY (depending on the type of player he is and likes to bet flush draws) He might think by check raising and capping the flop it might get you to slow down on the turn, take a free card and try to catch the river.

    I know I've been in pots against passive players who have limped with AA and KK also...not often but it has happened. I had a hand just like this a few days ago as a matter of fact. Only I had AK on the button everyone folded to me, I raised and was called by the blinds. Flop came A,K,9 rainbow, SB bet BB folded and we capped the flop, I forget exactly how the turn went I just called his river bet and he had 99 and won with his set of 9's.

    If a passive player decides to get real aggressive on a flop that contains AK, he's apparently not afraid of those cards.
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  9. #9
    NL20 Grinder... KRE8R's Avatar
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    Preflop is fine for me.

    After the flop CR is definitely scary. Here is the slowdown point for me. Would probably call the CR and then try for the free card on the turn. If he bets, fold.
    Lots of good rakeback options at http://www.rakeguard.com/?raf=KRE8R

    KRE8R probably has about seventy college funds in his NL5 roll.

  10. #10
    Check Raiser growlers's Avatar
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    Thanksfor the thoughts, guys,

    Preflop: As I stated above I like my raise, standard play for me and many others.

    Flop: I put him on a wide range preflop - any suited A, any two broadways, any pocket pair, and any suited connectors. This would get him to about his 35% VPIP. Now AK/ AA / KK I threw out as he would raise these preflop the vast majority of the time I think. Alot of his remaining range I could beat
    I wasn't as impressed as others when he checkraised. . I have seen many a 2-4 table player cap the flop with a flush draw. But obviously he could have 99 or A9, maybe K9.

    Turn: Wasn't sure what the check represented, still not sure now. But I felt if he had a made hand since he capped the flop, he would just bet out. I actually felt even MORE likely he had a flush draw and actually kicked myself for not betting until the river hit (although he clearly would have called with a flush draw anyway).

    River: well, I thought he made his flush, and I figured even if he didn't I was beat by a made hand, so I folded.

    I appreciate the posted insight, but I still wonder if I should have:
    1) folded to the checkraise on the flop (or called and fold the turn UI)
    2) played it the way I did and bet the turn since no flush card
    3) played it the way I did and called the river since the pot was so big

    Usually I come to a mental consensus after some comments but I am still not sure about this hand. Any more help out there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis68
    Quit playing poker.
    Quote Originally Posted by backdoor
    First of all you foul mouthed imbecile. I think the value of forums is immeasurible. Forums are the one place you can learn the game. Forums are a learning medium. The problem I find in forums are, your post. We are talking to hot headed, juveniles, who have no clue what they are doing. You have to weed through posts such as yours to get valuable information.

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