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Thread: donkin it up

  1. #1
    Fish Food tenaciousDel's Avatar
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    Default donkin it up

    Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter

    CO (t2940)
    Button (t1540)
    Hero (t1470)
    BB (t1420)
    UTG (t1470)
    UTG+1 (t1750)
    MP1 (t1470)
    MP2 (t1370)
    MP3 (t1570)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
    1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, 1 fold, MP2 calls t20, MP3 calls t20, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

    Flop: (t100) , , (5 players)
    Hero bets t75, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls t75, MP3 folds.

    Turn: (t250) (2 players)
    Hero bets t125, MP2 calls t125.

    River: (t500) (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP2 bets t200, Hero calls t200.

    Final Pot: t900

    that's strange, it cut the end off or something but he had KT for the win

    i'm really lost with this hand, can anyone help me out and basically run this down for me.. i'll briefly explain my thinking for each street

    pf - complete see cheap flop hopefully

    flop - good looking board for my hand, good enough to bet to get some people out of the pot and to find out where i'm at

    4th - an undercard, not very scary.. bet to get more info about what hes holding..

    5th - im probably beat, but i have no clue because he's slowplaying figured it was worth it just to look him up
    Last edited by tenaciousDel; 04-19-2006 at 12:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Poker Hustler Jason75's Avatar
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    Ok, this criticism might hurt, but if you want to improve you SNG game, it's time you heard it. I love the way you played this hand . . . because I double up on players like you. You are the prey. You overvalue top pair when the M's are extremely high (your M is hovering just below 50!!!), and keep firing even when you should know you're beat.

    So if you're serious about getting better at SNG's (which I assume you are since you had the courage to post up a hand here and take my shit), take this advice:

    You need to leave the cash game poker mentality at the door if you're going to play SNG's effectively. Stop trying to win every measly little pot and look for opportunities to stack the fish in one fell swoop. I want you to see flops cheaply, hit monsters, and stack the muthafucka's (my Jason 'n the Hood saying).

    So let's dissect this one and turn you from Prey into Hunter.

    PF - you've got a speculative hand, it's dirt cheap to see the flop, so I like the call. You're looking to flop a monster . . . it's harder to do with an unsuited hand (you don't get the straight + flush draws) . . . you're really looking for a flop like 8 9 Q, 9 K Q, JJ7, etc.

    NOTE: I do not consider two pair a monster here, as it usually gives your opponents the straight draw (or made straight on the flop).

    Flop - I know you think you have something here, but what you actually have is what I like to think of as "fish bait". I would never bet this hand in a field this crowded - what's the point? Pick up 100 measly chips occasionally, and every now and then you get sucked into a hand like this one which cripples you. It just so happens this guy is also a fish, but if I had checked in the big blind with 42, you'd be hurtin for certain. When this guy flat calls your bet on a board with no draws - YOU'RE BEAT!!!

    Turn - No improvement. Stop the bleeding and just check/fold.

    River - Ok, now you know you're beat, and call anyway. Ug, we spew even more chips down the drain. This is an easy fold - what can you possibly beat at this point other than 99, 88, 66? As for looking him up, we don't care what he has - most of these players are dead money and all play the same - he's either got a 4 or a better T than you. Don't let irrelevant curiousity kill your cat.

    Recommendations for plays here: Call with any pair in any position as long as you're getting 10:1 total odds (direct + implied). See cheap flops with any suited ace or king (don't you dare bet top pair - you're looking for 2 pair or better) or suited connectors. In late position or blinds, see cheap flops with unsuited connectors and high cards (again looking to flop monsters - not top pair).

    I do have a play where I call with AK, then if I hit my A or K, I immediately go all in and watch 2 other players call me down with absolute crap (and occasionally get stacked by a set). I also do the same with AQ in position.

    Do not raise any hand below KK (looking to get an all in confrontation PF) until the blinds become much more significant, then start raising with QQ with the same confrontation in mind.

    Give that a shot and come back for more.
    Jason75: Ok, you check and the button bets 400. Now what?
    Beavis68: You play poker.
    Jason75: Darn, I was really hoping for canasta. Maybe Gin.

  3. #3
    PokerForums God
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    depending on what I know about my opponents, and the limits I am playing, I play it like TenaciousD, or like Jason.

  4. #4
    Banned Irexes's Avatar
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    I'm check folding after the flop.

    I'd say more but Jason said it.

  5. #5
    Banned PowerfulRog's Avatar
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    Flop play is okay... it's downhill from there.

  6. #6
    Banned Irexes's Avatar
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    By the way the AK play is gold.

  7. #7
    Poker Hustler Jason75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irexes
    By the way the AK play is gold.
    Told ya!!! And you hit it 33% of the time, as opposed to flopping a set about 12%.

    Now try with AQ. I have mixed results going all in after hitting TP Q. I much more recommend just going all in on the A.
    Jason75: Ok, you check and the button bets 400. Now what?
    Beavis68: You play poker.
    Jason75: Darn, I was really hoping for canasta. Maybe Gin.

  8. #8
    Banned Irexes's Avatar
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    Strangely I've been limping AQ on occasion early in SnGs for a while for similar reasons, not quite so aggressive on the flop but I resented raising it preflop and letting it go when I missed (later on I'm happy to raise but like you I'm reluctant to reduce my double up value by letting any chips go unnecessarily).

    Yup TP Q is very different to K but in the right conditions great value as there are an incredible number of donks who are incapable of releasing KJ, KQ, AT, A9 etc when they hit top pair.

    I've also been playing it a bit in MTTs, I think you missed the "Thanks Jason" post I made in Glory Corner with an example

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