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  1. #1
    Mike McDermott
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    Default Deep stack strat. for NL MTT

    How do you guys play when you're deep stacked in the early-middle stages of a MTT? This seems to be the weakest part of my game as the tournament in I was last night.

    I was the CL of the tournament and had about 5x the average stack but within 3 orbits, I was crippled down to them. People would min. raise from decent position and I would reraise all in with big pockets like QQ, JJ, AK, etc.

    My QQ was beat by AK. My JJ were beat by 99. My AK was beat by TT.

    Am I just playing too aggressive and not respecting the other players' abilities by trying to bully?

    The limp and go strategy got me this big of a stack really fast so should I keep going with that? Tighten up until the blinds get bigger before doing any real action?

    Any help would be appreciated!
    BOSS

  2. #2
    Banned Irexes's Avatar
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    Default

    You see a lot of people get big stacks early in MTTs and can tell if they are going to last more than half an hour before they bust. Having a big stack is not a licence to play loose or a guarentee of further success. I think a lot of maniacs lose perspective as it's "only" x number of chips to call and justify to themselves a lot of daft moves.

    I play a fairly honest game with a big stack and raise the big hands preflop and make continuation bets (probably slightly larger ones than normal) if I miss the flop. Nothing fancy and let the short stacks get pressured and make mistakes and only engage with other big stacks in very favourable circumstances.

    I try not to let the size of my stack trap me into playing too many hands I would fold otherwise - this can be a good way to lose bundle with KQ on a flop of Qxx to AQ when you can't let go. However if you are getting allin with AK v JJ and losing it's just one of those things.

    One thing I do do (I said do do) is target the short stacks (either their blinds or their limps) and put them to the test for their entire stack. I think it's easy with a big stack to start making mistakes rather than forcing the other guy to do so, instead of following the basic rules and being the aggressor rather than the caller because you can afford to.

    This is not to say that there aren't opportunities to bully with a big stack but pick your opponents rather than think you have a right to more chips because of your stack and make daft moves against the calling stations. Everyone will be looking at you as the person to double up off of, don't make it easy for them.

    My view is that I've fought hard to get a big stack, I'm going to fight just as hard to keep it and grow it rather than see it as a chance to get loose and stupid,

  3. #3
    PokerForums God
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Irexes
    My view is that I've fought hard to get a big stack, I'm going to fight just as hard to keep it and grow it rather than see it as a chance to get loose and stupid,
    Yes, in my not at all humble opinion, I think many pro's misplay - or at least misreprestent how to play - big stacks.

    Lets define a deep stack: greater than 100BBs.

    Try to avoid big preflop gambles for a lot of chips.

    Use it to isolate short stacks when you have good holdings (especially after the antes kick in)

    play your opponents stacks. take specualative hands and play cheaply vs other large stacks. Be aggressive with strong holdings vs the short stacks.

    If you want to practice playing a big stack, look for cheap rebuy tourneys.

    The problem with most online tournaments, later in the game, a big stack is usually 30-50bbs. while this is comfortable, you can't make a lot of moves with a stack that size. one moderate loss or a couple of failed steals and you back to the middle stack.

  4. #4
    Mike McDermott tightagressive's Avatar
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    Default

    beavis and irexes basically covered everything, but i would like to note that being big stack does not dictate you to be agressive. the people who have that notion (like irexes said) are the people who lose the chip lead with hands like AT, KQ, because they are just making stupid plays because they see it done on tv.
    ok, you are not phil ivey, you dont have a remarkable ability to sense weakness, so why pretend? the luxury of the big stack for me at least is that i am not pressured into playing any style. i can play whatever i feel is best, tight in a loose table (i have the chips to wait for big cards) and steal blinds and make continuation bets at a really tight table.

  5. #5
    Poker Hustler Jason75's Avatar
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    One difference in how I play the big stack is that I avoid short stacks as well as the other big stacks. Shorties are desperate and give you less room to operate, big stacks can cripple or bust you. I target the average sized stacks, and put them to big decisions. It's amazing how many people seem to melt under the pressure.

    For instance, in the WSOP Circut event, there was a period where the blinds were 50-100, I had 10K in chips, and the three stacks to my left and the one to my right each had about 2500-4000. I simply kept the pressure up on that side of the table from the time I was in the BB all the way to the CO by putting them all in every time I picked up any suited connector, JT+, any pair, any A or K and daring them to pick up a hand on me. As soon as the fourth player over from me was in the BB (he had a big stack as well), I just shut it down unless I picked up a hand.

    By the time they decided to fight back, they were essentially crippled, and several of them were taken out in the space of a couple of hands (not by me). Unfortunately, the players that replaced them had some big stacks of their own.

    So that's pretty much my big stack play in a nutshell. Beat the crap out of the average stacks, and stay away from the big stacks who can hurt you. And don't play for flops . . . put them to life and death decisions PF.
    Jason75: Ok, you check and the button bets 400. Now what?
    Beavis68: You play poker.
    Jason75: Darn, I was really hoping for canasta. Maybe Gin.

  6. #6
    PokerForums God Marm's Avatar
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    That link to the "Limp and go" is the probably the best (IMHO) deep stack strategy. Now if your deep stack is also a big stack, then you can start buying more flops, and folding less, smartly of course.

    Nice sig Jason.
    Marm is back, maybe. Been off for 3 years. Rusty as Hell.

    Luck is a Residue of Design.

  7. #7
    PokerForums God
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason75
    One difference in how I play the big stack is that I avoid short stacks as well as the other big stacks. Shorties are desperate and give you less room to operate, big stacks can cripple or bust you. I target the average sized stacks, and put them to big decisions. It's amazing how many people seem to melt under the pressure.
    you definitely have to play selectively against short stacks. You need to realize that almost any hand you play against them will end up with them allin.

    Playing is a big stack is the most complicated, becuase you have to play everyone elses stack. People lose sight of that a lot. I have seen people on other forums post that they called a raise with 22 because it was only 5% of their stack, but if that 5% of your stack is 30% of your opponents stack it is a bad play.

    limping in before short stacks with speculative hands is a recipe for stack corrosion too. You wont have the implied odds to play your hand, and they are very likely to raise you.

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