In NL cash games, what kind of odds do you need to call a PF raise with a small pocket pair? I keep finding myself in situations where I limp from MP with a small pair (let's say 4s) after a couple of other people have limped from EP. Then someone from LP raises it up to something like 5bb, a couple other people call and it comes to me.

Generally speaking, should I call? Or more specifically, what are the minimum PF odds you would need to make this call?

Ok, there's a difference between direct odds and implied odds.

Direct odds are very simple. What you have to call vs. what is actually in the pot. That's it. So if it's 300 more to you and there's 1500 in the pot, you're getting 5:1 on your money.

Implied odds are what you think you can get if you hit your hand. So if it's 300 to call a 900 pot (3:1 direct odds), but you have 4000 and your opponent has 3600, your odds are:

3 (direct) + 12 (3600/300 - always go with the lesser amount of stacks) = 15:1

To hit your set (my favorite play), you need about 7.5:1 to break even. So I would call anytime your total odds are 9 or 10:1 or better. In position, I will often call just getting 8:1.

I will sometimes call with less than 8:1 in cash games because ppls stacks are usually pretty high compared to the blinds. In your example you need to call 4bb to look at a pot of about 22bb, but ppl usually sit in with at least 50bb and sometimes 200bb. Of course at the low limits I play, its very likely you'll stack someone if you hit a set.

Originally Posted by Fishodeath

I will sometimes call with less than 8:1 in cash games because ppls stacks are usually pretty high compared to the blinds. In your example you need to call 4bb to look at a pot of about 22bb, but ppl usually sit in with at least 50bb and sometimes 200bb. Of course at the low limits I play, its very likely you'll stack someone if you hit a set.

See, that's exactly why I asked this question. In a tournament, I'm laying this down 99% of the time but in a ring game it SEEMS to be +EV in the long run since it usually takes down a large pot when you catch your set.

Yeah at low limits, i call/limp with them for any reasonable raise, becuase implied odds here are usually great and there is a good chance you can stack someone if you hit.

Originally Posted by Mr.McJ

See, that's exactly why I asked this question. In a tournament, I'm laying this down 99% of the time but in a ring game it SEEMS to be +EV in the long run since it usually takes down a large pot when you catch your set.

I think laying this hand down in a tournament is a mistake if you're getting your odds.

I often call raises in position or even in the blinds with any pair as long as I am getting my odds. That being said, I'm very good at extracting every last penny when I hit, so I can run it a little closer to the edge.

You'll want to inflate your odds a little, get at least 10:1 until you feel more comfortable playing the set.