No, its not. You're position is already determined when the cards are being dealt. You dont have a 1/9 chance of being UTG on any random hand. When the cards are dealt you ARE under the gun with a 221: chance of having AA. If you dont understand this you need to re-read my post

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“There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann

I'm getting sick of people with closed minds. Anyone that says this is a bad play only has one reason " People will know the strength of your hand" And If you would limp-reraise with more than AA KK people will not know the strength of your hand. Broaden your game STOP PLAYING ROBOT POKER!

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“There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann

bonch plz no need for the retarded comments

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?page=view&hand=21427

limp/calling isnt better than limp/raising in this spot??????????

if utg simply calls there he gets my stack on the flop

pwnt?

Jk is right limp re-raise is a giveaway BUT.

on 60% tables - all-in will usually catch a clown with a stack small enough to make it worth it

Certainly on a 40% table - if someone raises after you limp - ask yourself who it is... If the guy knows what he is doing, call.. If the guy is going to get upset because you're trying to bluff him out of his AQ os (which he knows is a winning hand because he sees it win all the time in tournaments) then reraise to the point that he might call.. Golden rule with aces.. GET ALL THE MONEY IN PREFLOP. If you trip with aces on the flop the betting will stop. If the flop is bad (nine times out of ten they are), the betting will stop.

IF no-one raises you preflop then even with 4 players you're on to a 70% winner with top pair.. just bet it out 'normally'.. That's how you make most money..

The real problem I have with aces on the tighter tables is that I win 90% of the time.. I know that I should be losing more AA hands to make more money
The optimum is about 70%

Bob........

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See me playing $10/$20NL like it was play money

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...405&q=xxdemexx

Doberman: "but Sarge, isn't poker gambling and just luck?"
Sgt. Bilko:" not the way I play it"

So, I neglected this topic because I assumed that it was gonna be dumb and I was right. But it was dumb on a different level. I figured that people would be displaying hand after hand ad nauseam on their big pots with Aces. It's gone very far off mainly because it seems as if "Jack King Off" isn't really reading the replies or refuses to admit where he's wrong.

First of all, according to the math, off all of the times that you are UTG, you will be dealt AA once every 220 times. Those are the odds for every position individually and when combined universally is still 220:1. Think of it this way. If you start playing poker every night at 6:30, you will be dealt AA once every 220 hands that you are dealt at 6:35.

Second, people have discussed individual players in this thread, while neglecting the more important factor- table atmosphere. There is no uniform manner in which to play a hand based on the cards in all situations at all tables. The stakes of the game and table atmosphere are the most important factor to determine how you play ANY cards. If your table is one that costs a lot to see flops, you have to determine whether:

A.) Is it only the "any Ace" that induces people to raise?

If so, raise it up yourself because chances are that nobody has an Ace for you to limp-raise. And even worse, less people will see the flop and you'll win even less because you're being passive in a pot that is minimal as it is. You're committing yourself to winning a small pot or losing a huge pot.

B.) There are a couple of people that are raising every pot if one of the others limps or everyone folds to them when they have position.

This is an aggressive table in which it's get to set the trap. But these situations come up only if these aggressors are on your right. The aggression has induced a lot of people to wait for hands, so you can get the best situation going into the flop with the best hand- a small amount of people in a big pot.

"B." is the only situation where a limp-raise preflop works or even a limp-call. JK off, you're giving your opponents WAY too much credit. The general population is bad at poker and evn though they read the books, they don't have the patience and discipline and discrimination skills to play consistently. They are gamblers using poker to justify gambling because "poker's not gambling."

The key to poker is making your opponents make mistakes. At tight tables, you want your opponents to make bad folds. At aggressive tables, you want your opponents to make bad raises. This is preflop play. After that, your actions must have the opponent's reaction that you will for in mind. Otherwise, you're playing it like video poker. You're gonna keep winning small pots and losing big pots with AA and passing with AA when you could've been the aggressor and made the move to make your opponents make a bad call preflop with their 99 or JJ and taken a nice pot on the flop.

You can't make your opponents make mistakes if you're limping.

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Ok to all! I see why AA UTG is not 2000:1 anymore. When considering one hand, position should never be a variable because you always start at a certain position. It's given, a prerequisite, etc. If say I decided to play 9 hands, or an orbit, or 5 orbits, or a lifespan, then position becomes a variable, since you don't know exactly what position you start at for each hand.

But in this case you guys are talking specifically about AA UTG for one hand, not within an orbit.

Am i correcto or still missing something?

has absolutely nothing to do with limp/raising over limp/calling yet i dont read others replies. k

to say for the last time. OBVIOUSLY there are times when L/Ring is better, but for those times when it wont go 5 way for cheap L/Cing is much more better

JKo plays mostly SnG's where the players have to be tighter. I play at medium limits where again players tend to be tight. At small limits that most of you play, noone respects raises that much, but at my tables and at SnG's when someone raises 5xBB its HU or 3 way pot at most.

In those situations its not a bad idea to just call at all, you are doing it to trap someone with KK, QQ. You lose extra bets when the flop comes 3 rags and they have AK, but when they have QQ and the flop comes T high they are pretty sure they have the best hand and you are in the same situation like calling a raise with medium pair and flop a set. You have a huge chance to take his stack.

JK didnt said call to play a 4 way pot, he said call to play HU with the raiser. If you think that the pot will go 4 way you have to raise. You are arguing over different situations.

You are still missing something. The only time it would be a variable is in a situation like this. What are the chances of me getting AA and being UTG in the first hand of a tournament? And that is because position is dealt out by high-card for the button and is variable. Once position is has been established, it is no longer variable. You are either UTG or not. If you are sitting in the SB and wondering what the odds are that you will bet AA when you are UTG, it is still 220:1 or what ever the hell it is.

Nicely put