PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed) converter
Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
UTG+2 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)
Preflop: Hero is BB with,
.
UTG calls t20, 2 folds, MP1 calls t20, 1 fold, MP3 calls t20, CO calls t20, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to t200, UTG calls t180, MP1 folds, MP3 calls t180, CO folds, SB calls t180.
Flop: (t840),
,
(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t200, UTG folds, MP3 calls t200, SB folds.
Turn: (t1240)(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks.
River: (t1240)(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks.
Final Pot: t1240
This is the first hand of the SnG so I don't have any reads on anybody. I knew I needed to give a large PF raise to drive people out (which is why I went with 10bb. On the flop I actually thought I was beat, but I wanted to put in a continuation bet (I know, I know) figureing there really is no way with that flop if they call I'm beat...
I got one caller and figured A) he had a K or B) he was on the FD. Since I figured the odds were far better that he had a K then the FD I figured I was beat and resigned myself to check/fold the rest of the hand...When the A hit on the river I really didn't see how he could have called my PF raise and flop bet without either a K or an A (other then FD). The fact that he wasn't betting was screaming weak K...
Comments...
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Thread: Comments
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04-03-2006 #1
Comments
Trons
Originally Posted by Jason75
JstTrons
Toyotatruck

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04-03-2006 #2PokerForums God
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- Sep 2004
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- 8,204
if you are going to raise to 200, why not just push?
And before the parrots start squawking, pushing does not mean you will be in a coinflip position. You are likely to get called by all sorts of pairs you have dominated, and some Ax morons. You can pretty much rule out AA KK and QQ being in the field, and AK is also now unlikely. If called you really only have to worry about AQ. everthing else that limps and calls you, you have by the nuts.
the flop, all you are doing is giving people odds to call you with any draw. I generally do not make continuation bets into 3 or more players.
This flop is particularly problematic because you do not know what a call means, and you in terrible position.Last edited by Beavis68; 04-03-2006 at 09:54 AM.
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04-03-2006 #3
Ummmm.... whats with the pansy bet there? That screams to me I have a good hand that total missed the flop. If you're going to probe here, gotta have a little more balls, like 400ish here IMO. But that's even if you want to bet at all......
Marm is back, maybe. Been off for 3 years. Rusty as Hell.
Luck is a Residue of Design.
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04-03-2006 #4
Push or call preflop and look for a set. I'd call. I fold JJ to a raise early in SnGs.
From where you were I'd check fold it, but I wouldn't be there.
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04-03-2006 #5
I concur, push or call PF. Just know that every so often, an EP player will have slow played AA or KK and you'll be toast. But I don't think it will happen often enough to make pushing a bad play here. BTW, I personally just call with AK here in any position looking to trap, so if there's some sharks out there like me you're a coinflip (if you ever see this, you should label those players "ringers").
Personally, I call any raise with JJ as long as I'm getting at least 8:1 direct+implied odds.
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04-03-2006 #6PokerForums God
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- Sep 2004
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I can't believe you guys play JJ for set value.
I agree with Jason that you will run into AA KK QQ and AK sometimes, but I think the odds of it are drastically reduced. And you will catch limpers with AK much more than the pairs, so you are still ok.
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04-03-2006 #7
Neither do my opponents, which is why I stack them just about every time.
Originally Posted by Beavis68
I'm not going to argue that pushing isn't a good play, it's just not one I use with JJ here. QQ is my cutoff point for pushing at these blinds.
Of course, if the flop comes all undercards, I'm going to make a bet to take this pot down.
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04-03-2006 #8
I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't see a problem with making a standard raise pf. Its the 1st hand, the blinds aren't worth squat. I think most of the time a raise of 100 achieves the same result as a raise of 200, so I would go with 100.
43% of the time no overcards will hit the flop; if this happens you are poised to scoop with a pot sized bet.
57% of the time there will be at least 1 overcard (Beavis - this would be the argument for playing for a set); often times you can win the pot with a continuation bet, but its got to be at least 1/2 the pot. Overbetting pf makes the post flop play that much more difficult when the overcard hits (which it usually will) - as in this situation where the pot is up to 800 and a cont. bet woul have 40% of your stack in the pot.
In this example the small cont. bet is useless. FD, Kx, QJ and even AT are all going to call and you won't know any better where you are in the hand. All you will know for sure is to fold to a reraise. The flop bet is a waste of chips here - but if you had raised 100 pf, the pot would only be 400 and a 200-250 bet on the flop might have some merit to it (without committing you)... although vs. 3 others this is still an iffy play.Last edited by ypsieast; 04-03-2006 at 12:06 PM.
"There is a good chance I gave you a very bad description of something that doesn't work."
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04-03-2006 #9
I wholeheartedly endorse this idea and/or product.
Originally Posted by Jason75
I'm pushing QQ, I'm only occassionally pushing JJ, I'm certainly not looking to build a pot and see a flop.
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04-03-2006 #10PokerForums God
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Do you really think they would lay it down post-flop fearing a set of jacks if you had raised?
Originally Posted by Jason75
I don't see a problem raising to 100, just remember you are going to folding post-flop about 50% of the time.
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