ok this thread is for all those no-limit holdem cash game players, who have trouble playing big pocket pairs like AA KK or QQ, post flop, when they are getting bet into or raised. And then end up posting a hand history here with titles like "should i have known" "should i have stopped betting on this street" or whatnot, when they find out they ran their big pocket pair into a set on the flop.

Anyways, this is how I play large pocket pairs.. you want to bet it extremely hard PF to deny odds for anyone to call pf to try to hit a set with a small-medium pocket pair. This way when u bet hard pf, u can be rest assured that when situations like this arise, ur opponent wont be holding a set and therefore can bet at it on the flop with confidence and without doubting whether u have the best hand or not. Also raising hard preflop will draw out the class 1 hands like QQ JJ and AK, and u will also get those maniacs who will try to re-raise you all in to try to buy the pot preflop - which is always a good thing when ur holding AA/KK.


In the bottom situation, my flop call was really easy to do given the fact that i raised it hard PF. And therefore I knew my opponent could not be holding a set.

If i had just played the KK preflop with a standard 4x BB raise on the flop, and the same situation happened. Then u can easily become unsure of what to do on the flop if this type of situation arises because u will start thinking whether ur opponent has a set or not.


anyways, credit goes to xxdemexx for teaching me how to play AA KK and QQ this way several months back.



Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (10 handed) converter

CO ($106.85)
Button ($12.60)
SB ($13.18)
BB ($51.20)
UTG ($80.25)
UTG+1 ($86.51)
UTG+2 ($37.07)
MP1 ($24.45)
MP2 ($105.45)
Hero ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with , .
UTG calls $0.50, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5.5, CO calls $5.50, 3 folds, UTG folds.

Flop: ($12.25) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $12, CO goes all-in for $101.35, Hero goes all-in for $44. CO is returned $57.35 .

Turn: ($100.25) (2 players)

River: ($100.25) (2 players)

Final Pot: $100.25

Results in white below:
Hero has Kc Kh (two pair, kings and fours).
CO has Qc Qh (two pair, queens and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins $100.25.

Oh god!!! You really play them Really agressively...

And I would say CO is a bit blind here... how can he think he is in front here????? In fact he probably know you have AA or KK, but just dont want to admit it.

Dont you think AA and KK makes more $$$ played a bit less aggressively?
Its really a question cause I play AA the exact same way I would Play AK, AQ, QQ, JJ even TT and 99 in unopened pot. If I already have a few raiser in front, thats another ball game, but even there, sometime I can flat call if my opponent is agressive enough...

Do you often see action with that kind of raise?
+ do raise that much with some other hands to try to desguise your play? Squeeze play for example...?

KJ

my baybe pokertracker stats:

playing strong pairs @ 6max game is very simple. raise preflop (you will get calls). ILl open a pot for 3.5bb, and if ppl are already in before i act, i bet harder.


on the flop, if the whole table calls, kiss it good bye.
if your HU or 3way, usually bet pot unless the flop is ugly (like KQJ all same suit)

why do i win more w/ KK? b/c its easy for me to fold. played it 44 times and the most iv lost w/ it is 8$ (32bb).



great thread btw.

Originally Posted by KINGJACK

Dont you think AA and KK makes more $$$ played a bit less aggressively?

Do you often see action with that kind of raise?
+ do raise that much with some other hands to try to desguise your play? Squeeze play for example...?

KJ

I think AA and KK makes more $$ played this way, because its either u win a small pot or u win a huge pot. If u play AA/KK with the standard 4x bb raise, and allow people to call u down pf with pocket pairs 22-1010, whenever they flop a set, you will lose a big pot. So if u play AA/KK with the 4xBB way, its either u win a small pot, or lose a big pot right?

And its not like i dont get action when i play AA KK QQ hard pf. I'd say my raises would be called down or re-raised pf about 30% of the time im dealt those big pocket pairs. The other times u dont get called down u still make a bit of $$ from the blinds.

Also I dont raise hard PF with the other hands to try to disguise my play. This is because if ur called down, especially when ur OOP with a hand like AK after u raised to 11x BB pf, you will have a hard time playing the hand postflop if u dont flop anything and its 2/3 that u wont flop anything. Therefore you wont be able to play it as confidently on the flop, if u dont hit it at all, which is why i dont play it as hard as i would AA or KK.

Also if their are any fish or maniacs at that table, and u raise hard pf, you will be able to draw them out easily as they tend to like to overplay marginal hands preflop such as AQ AJ KQ KJ QJ etc. especially if their sooted! I had a guy call my $5.50 raise yesterday with Q10s.

Also there is really no need to disguise my play, because I switch tables constantly. The way I play is I would play at each table for about an hour. Then take a 5-10 minute break. Then switch up tables and play on another set of tables for another hour and so on.

In reply to eclipse initial post ...

In your example the flop was not that troublesome .....

How would you have bet the flop if an A was showing?

I agree with Gder03 and KingJack on this one ... you play them too aggressively. I am removing QQ from the equation because I think it is a completely different entity.

I think you are not representing the strength of the hands you have in this play and are losing many opportunites to win more money.

Take for instance your 10x the BB raise and all fold, this no longer becomes a discussion on holding AA or KK it becomes a discussion on table composition; you would have acheived the same result with any holding.

So far as winning big when you get a call .... you are likely to get a call with KK ... sure .. and all chips will probably be in. I do think though that your wins from this scenario will be offset by your losses when the scenario is reversed.

You want to bet out the drawing hands by your raise but leave the pocket pairs in play.

I have come up with the following simplistic situation to try and justify my comments:

Playing AA

In this case You always hold AA and are always the BB
Your opponent always holds a pocket pair and pre flop calls the BB
Your opponent will always fold to 10xBB raise
Your opponent will always call a 3xBB raise
Your opponent will always fold to a post flop 1/2 pot sized raise if the set is missed

The chances of your opponent hitting his set on the flop are approx 1 in 8 (7 you win, 1 you lose)

Play Method 1

You raise 10 x BB on all hands.
You win the opponents bet for all of his 7 possible set missing hands and 1 of his possible set hitting hands (winning 8xBB profit)

Play Method 2

You raise 3xBB on all hands.
Your opponent calls all of his 7 set missing hands (winning 28xBB profit)
Your opponent calls his set winning hand (losing ????).

So you can see by playing so aggressively pre flop by being scared of the set that you are missing out on 7 opportunities in 8 to make more chips.

Its up to you how you handle the hand your opponent hits his set on as to how much you lose.