Correct bets with AA?

**Maf1889** · 03-26-2006

Only my 2nd hand at the table and I pick up As.

After looking at the hand I think I should've gone all in on the turn and just try to take the pot there instead. The 7c on the turn and the board in general didn't worry me so I wanted to get as much as I could out of the hand.

The only cards I didn't want to see on the river were a K or 10. A K might mean Ks and JavaScript or the straight and the 10 would leave KQ or an 8 making straights. I didn't slow down on the river 10 because I didn't think they held the KQ or 8 at this point after calling a pot sized bet on the flop and another good sized bet on the turn.

What should I have done differently?

***** Hand History for Game 3823691460 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Sun Mar 26 04:52:24 EST 2006
Table Beginners March GiveAway 1209656 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: guzarin ( $18.71)
Seat 2: marcolol73 ( $1.17)
Seat 3: udabears ( $4.57)
Seat 4: kaps571 ( $6.16)
Seat 5: MikeF1889 ( $4.96)
Seat 6: mathiassulse ( $5)
Seat 7: be_lekas ( $13.41)
Seat 8: xJAWSx ( $26.55)
Seat 9: Jole69 ( $3.70)
Seat 10: crusible ( $6.37)
MikeF1889 posts small blind (0.02)
mathiassulse posts big blind (0.04)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MikeF1889 [

,

]
be_lekas folds.
xJAWSx calls (0.04)
Jole69 folds.
crusible calls (0.04)
marcolol73 calls (0.04)
udabears folds.
kaps571 folds.
MikeF1889 raises (0.27) to 0.29
mathiassulse folds.
xJAWSx folds.
crusible calls (0.25)
marcolol73 calls (0.25)
** Dealing Flop ** : [

,

]
MikeF1889 bets (0.92)
crusible calls (0.92)
marcolol73 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [

]
MikeF1889 bets (1.45)
crusible calls (1.45)
** Dealing River ** : [

]
MikeF1889 bets (2.30)
MikeF1889 is all-In.
crusible calls (2.30)

Results:
MikeF1889 balance $0, lost $4.96 [ Ac As ]

crusible balance $11.20, net +$4.83 [ Kc Qh ]

**ChuckNorris** · 03-26-2006

Well I can't really say that I would have done much different here. But I can say that I believe optimal strategy dictates a different play (of course I could be wrong). The flop doesn't contain a flush threat but it does contain a significant threat of a straight draw or two-pair.

In this situation I think you have to overbet the pot (about 1.5 times the pot. I believe you bet the pot on the flop). If you do, he should let go of any hand (including an open-ended straight draw - the pot odds to call are now 5:2) except for a made 2-pair. In any vent if you get the flat call you have to proceed with caution - s/he's probably on two pair or better (maybe trips). Ideally you would check-fold (which risks giving a free card to the straight draw and might even give her/him the implied odds s/he needed to call in the first place).

I think the key is to define your hand as soon as you see that flop. Make sure that s/he only has odds to call if s/he is beating you right there. And then hopefully respect her/his decision. Overall this is the winning play I think because it forces her/him to make a mistake on the flop.

I think that after that, if the turn comes the way it did, you can be certain that this player hasn't drawn out... yet... the card could not have helped a straight draw. So a check is safe because if your opponent bets you can fold to a made two-pair, and if s/he checks you can cosider that s/he may have taken the next card for free to see if they hit their straight (this may be important for determining credibility on the river if the opponent bets). the 7 on the end was not a good card. This makes a straight, and the fact that it may have competed a runner-runner flush is even worse, so it's time to pull the plug. Check and see what s/he does. I'd say proper strategy is to fold to a bet here, depending of course on its size.

Dunno if this was good advice or helpful, but hoping it was at least one or the other. On second thought it might have even been best to bet twice the pot on the flop. At least then you'd know where you stand (assuming he was a good player and made the right play), but on the other hand you'd be building a tempting pot and s/he'd have a great opportunity to bluff when you checked the river to her/him.

At the end of the day, if there was a mistake at all, I think it came on the flop because of the bet size, but as I said I routinely make this same bet. Thank you because after this exercise I will change my play in this situation. Tough beat (I'm assuming you lost since you posted this).

**ChuckNorris** · 03-26-2006

To my mind, the worst case scenario here is folding to KK, or QQ, who are both going to bet back in all likelihood. This is the biggest problem. You can't let them have this. That's why I'm inclined to lose big here. If this person has 2 pair or trips, you're doomed anyways. You can't give this pot up to KK or QQ and you can't let the straight call with odds. Most other hands have already paid you for their poor play if you look at this situation a million times (for example, JT is not going to profit from this play because he won't catch enough times to make up for all the money he pays you preflop - at least I am fairly certain this is true). Pocket pairs might be an exception.

**Maf1889** · 03-26-2006

At these tables I don't give them credit for a hand unless they show any strength. None of the cards really worried me enough to slow down. They could've had a set or caught the flush. A straight is the last thing I put them on even on the river because they had to call a gut shot to make it if they weren't already holding the 10,8.

Hands are in white at the bottom if you didn't see that yet.

**tightagressive** · 03-26-2006

just push the turn, the 7 shouldnt scare you

**PartTimePoker** · 03-26-2006

While chuck has a good point about the value of defining the hand on the flop, I don't like the overbet advice [altho at some limits where people can't let go of a draw no matter what, it makes sense].

There's nothing wrong with charging someone the wrong price for a draw and having them call. That's how you make a ton of money in poker. Think about this advice:

"In this situation I think you have to overbet the pot (about 1.5 times the pot. I believe you bet the pot on the flop). If you do, he should let go of any hand (including an open-ended straight draw - the pot odds to call are now 5:2) except for a made 2-pair. "

So you should bet an amount that gets every weaker hand that is drawing slim against you to fold but stronger hands to call? Noooooooo. You need to make money from those weaker hands to balance out the times when your AA does get outflopped. This strategy reflects a passive thinking that usually suggests a person is scared to play past the flop with a marginal hand - but playing the turn and river with marginal hands is where the money gets made in poker.

Chris

**ChuckNorris** · 03-26-2006

Yeah I just reread my post and it appears I misread the hand history. In a big way. Sorry.

About the overbetting the pot... what I meant was that good players who are chasing the straight here will let go. I always assumed that good strategy was to make the price more than the true odds of connecting in order to profit from chasers. So the intention is to draw calls from the fish when they are paying too much. It appears that I'm wrong about that. I'm not surprised. Still learning the game. Thanks Chris.

**SeanyBullets1** · 03-26-2006

I think you just got unlucky. I don't think he should've been in the hand at all...

**Eclipse86** · 03-26-2006

i would have raise pf a lot harder. 40cents+ pf raise here.
flop - bet potsize
turn - bet another potsize, or all in if u dont have that many chips left.

on the flop the only thing that beats u there is a set.
if u raised it hard pf then the only hand u should be afraid of there is JJ.

given the pf action, there is only 1 hand that can beat u on the flop which is the JJ.... vs a range of other hands that u have dominated. AJ QQ KK or even KJ QJ etc. This is why u need to bet the turn and flop hard. You are a favourite to win against this range of hands.

**Jason75** · 03-27-2006

Betting this hand on the river with a flush and straight board I think is a mistake. AA is a great hand (obviously), but given the action and this board it appears to be medium strength at best. Just check/call the river.

BTW, I'd have put him all in on the turn. You've got to get your money in while these suckers still have some hope left.

PokerForums.org

Welcome to PokerForums.org

Thread: Correct bets with AA?

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display