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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > General Poker Strategy > Weak-Tight? Folding the nuts

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 09:32 AM
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i posted a thread very very similiar to this on 2+2.

i had QJ in the bb flop was AKT 2 hearts. ended up on the flop all in 4 ways. one had TT other had Axh other had aj or something. i asked them if it was right to fold the nuts there (this was a tournament though) and basically what i got from it was that it would be retarded to fold when you got the best hand and all the money is in.

i cant put them on set/flush/straight draw. this time because they had the hands they did it would have been the right fold, but the hands could have been like AK KT and q9 or something which would make it a horrible fold.

anyway to your hand this is ring i dont see why you would fold the best hand? of course they have draws there will always be draws, but why would you fold. put as much money in on the flop as you can when you have the nuts and fold when you dont. you just have to charge them enough for the draws not fold! they could have had a oesd to a bigger straight with 2 pair with a flush draw or something then its not a good fold
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 10:21 AM
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Well, this is Omaha, not Hold'em. With a bet, a pot, and a re-pot, you are up against powerful drawing hands, or good made hands that have a chance of improving. Bonch's hand will not improve. The later streets can only hurt him, rather than help him.

On your hand, with 4 all-ins, I probably would have folded also.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 11:30 AM
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If you have AcKc, and the board is say QhJcTh, and there are 3 other people in the hand, and its bet, potted and re-potted before it gets to you, you should fold. Lets say one guy has Ah5h, one guy has AsJd, and one guy has QcTc. Lets see now, if any heart comes up (9) you lose, if a non-heart K falls (2) you split, if a Q or a T falls (4) you lose. So now you have to dodge 13 cards that make you lose and 2 that make you split. You have approx 56% chance of losing, 8% chance to split and a 36% chance to win. You have good odds of beating ONE of them, but taken together you will probably lose.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack King off
i posted a thread very very similiar to this on 2+2.

i had QJ in the bb flop was AKT 2 hearts. ended up on the flop all in 4 ways. one had TT other had Axh other had aj or something. i asked them if it was right to fold the nuts there (this was a tournament though) and basically what i got from it was that it would be retarded to fold when you got the best hand and all the money is in.

i cant put them on set/flush/straight draw. this time because they had the hands they did it would have been the right fold, but the hands could have been like AK KT and q9 or something which would make it a horrible fold.

anyway to your hand this is ring i dont see why you would fold the best hand? of course they have draws there will always be draws, but why would you fold. put as much money in on the flop as you can when you have the nuts and fold when you dont. you just have to charge them enough for the draws not fold! they could have had a oesd to a bigger straight with 2 pair with a flush draw or something then its not a good fold

Please re-read my post and think it through. I do not have the best hand. You can not charge enough for the draws to fold, one will always stay in with the nuts+flush draw
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosox1
If you have AcKc, and the board is say QhJcTh, and there are 3 other people in the hand, and its bet, potted and re-potted before it gets to you, you should fold. Lets say one guy has Ah5h, one guy has AsJd, and one guy has QcTc. Lets see now, if any heart comes up (9) you lose, if a non-heart K falls (2) you split, if a Q or a T falls (4) you lose. So now you have to dodge 13 cards that make you lose and 2 that make you split. You have approx 56% chance of losing, 8% chance to split and a 36% chance to win. You have good odds of beating ONE of them, but taken together you will probably lose.
Assuming this is Holdem(which it sure looks like)

Wrong this is a terrible fold. You have about a 41% chance of winning the pot and will be getting a much much better price on your money, in this case you're only play is to- reraise or push in if you can. In this example you have the best hand, in mine I don't. Folding the nuts when you are a favorite to take the pot is a terrible play. If you think I'm wrong run some expectation numbers and see what happens.

Oh by the way you make like this, it shows that you do indeed have the best hand:
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Kc 323 39.39 444 54.15 53 6.46 0.415
Ah 5h 286 34.88 481 58.66 53 6.46 0.370
As Jd 7 0.85 760 92.68 53 6.46 0.030
Qc Tc 151 18.41 667 81.34 2 0.24 0.185
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack King off
i posted a thread very very similiar to this on 2+2.

i had QJ in the bb flop was AKT 2 hearts. ended up on the flop all in 4 ways. one had TT other had Axh other had aj or something. i asked them if it was right to fold the nuts there (this was a tournament though) and basically what i got from it was that it would be retarded to fold when you got the best hand and all the money is in.

i cant put them on set/flush/straight draw. this time because they had the hands they did it would have been the right fold, but the hands could have been like AK KT and q9 or something which would make it a horrible fold.

anyway to your hand this is ring i dont see why you would fold the best hand? of course they have draws there will always be draws, but why would you fold. put as much money in on the flop as you can when you have the nuts and fold when you dont. you just have to charge them enough for the draws not fold! they could have had a oesd to a bigger straight with 2 pair with a flush draw or something then its not a good fold

In a tournament there are many exceptions, there are even time too fold AA preflop. Depending on where you were/ how many left/ the pay outstructure/ chip stacks/ 1000 more things. Folding may be correct or incorrect here.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 12:24 PM
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This was an Omaha hand, LOL. I'm not quite sure how this got to hold'em, but it was probably off Jack's post.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 12:39 PM
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Yeah, my bad, I don't know what I was thinking. Even thought you have less than 50% chance of winning you are going to quadrouple up if you win making it a great call
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 12:46 PM
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yea people pull 50% out of no where sometimes... it doenst make sense
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