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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > General Poker Strategy > Did I have to call this river?

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2006, 03:41 PM
Mr.McJ's Avatar
Stu Ungar
 
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Default Did I have to call this river?

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Hero ($26.25)
BB ($35.70)
UTG ($19.10)
UTG+1 ($29.55)
MP1 ($11.80)
MP2 ($9.75)
CO ($24.75)
Button ($10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
6 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.50) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $0.5, BB calls $0.50.

Turn: ($1.50) (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, BB calls $1.50.

River: ($4.50) (2 players)
Hero bets $2, BB raises to $6, Hero calls $4.

Final Pot: $16.50

Results in white below:
Hero has 9s Ts (two pair, tens and nines).
BB has Jc 8s (straight, jack high).
Outcome: BB wins $16.50.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2006, 03:45 PM
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No, you could have folded.

But as to Should you have called? I dunno... Did you win?
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:51 PM
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Stu Ungar
 
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Guy calls me all the way with a GSSD.




Quote:
Results in white below:
Hero has 9s Ts (two pair, tens and nines).
BB has Jc 8s (straight, jack high).
Outcome: BB wins $16.50.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2006, 03:52 PM
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Mike McDermott
 
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no, fold. lets work it out.
the only reasonable hand you beat now is a pair of 10's, but do you honestly think that a pair of 10's is going to cold call that then make a reasonable raise when cards that beat him come? the hands you are beating dont make sense with the way the villian played the hand. once he called you on the turn i check fold the river.
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Old 03-06-2006, 04:41 PM
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I was just screwing around there... TA's suggestions are good.
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Old 03-07-2006, 03:20 AM
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yea that river is a check-fold.. or a check-call at best if u believe u have him beat.. but the way that guy played the hand, he was either on the FD from the start, or he had the 7 for the trips.. so when ur river card hit, u are drawing dead to both situations.

definately not calling this raise. because if u look at all the possible raising hands on the river, u have NONE of them beat. the only thing u beat on the river is a stone bluff. but i doubt he would try that since u have shown strength throughout the whole hand, INCLUDINg the river.
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:56 AM
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This is a tough one because his bet could just as easily be a bluff on the river. You've been representing a made hand the whole way, so when that last club comes it's easy to push tight players off on the river with a well timed bluff. (typical flush bluffer). Of course, this guy actually has a hand. But you only have to win this one 1:2.5 to break even. So it's a tough call.

Your real mistake is betting this river . . . . your hand is medium strength at best. Don't bet medium strength hands on the river - just the bluffs and strong hands. Just check/call with medium strength.
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Old 03-07-2006, 03:06 PM
Fish Food
 
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I agree with Jason above me, maybe the raise was a bad thing. But the call was still a medicore call in my opinon. I wouldnt have put him on the straight though. I would have thought he hit his flush.

One thing I would do to fix this from happing next time,

On the flop he only called your 50 cent raise, so you can probably assume he doesnt have a 7 unless he is slow playing it. If he called he is either on 2 over cards or some form of a draw.

On the turn it was very unlikely a 2 of spades helped him. By betting 1.50 you gave him about 2:1 for his money. Which probably still isnt good cause he really need 5:1 but still people like to call these hands. So in hindsight, which after the hand is the only way to look at it, you probably should of bet closer to 3-5 dollars and just pushed him out of the hand.

After all poker is about winning the pot, not the hand.
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Old 03-07-2006, 03:13 PM
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no one has mentioned this, but why didn't you raise PF? I know its a weak holding, but he may very well let you steal his blind, and if he calls or fires back a raise, then you can let it go. by letting him just check, you have no idea what he is holding, it could be any two cards. I almost never let the blinds in for free, unless I am in late position, with mediocre holdings, and there are several limpers in front of me.

Maybe that strategy is wrong, if so let me know so I can fix it, otherwise I am going to raise it PF there with that holding almost everytime.
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Old 03-07-2006, 03:23 PM
Fish Food
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimvin
no one has mentioned this, but why didn't you raise PF? I know its a weak holding, but he may very well let you steal his blind, and if he calls or fires back a raise, then you can let it go. by letting him just check, you have no idea what he is holding, it could be any two cards. I almost never let the blinds in for free, unless I am in late position, with mediocre holdings, and there are several limpers in front of me.

Maybe that strategy is wrong, if so let me know so I can fix it, otherwise I am going to raise it PF there with that holding almost everytime.
Actually that is not a bad idea at all. Its just a diffrent style. You have to have a read on the table. If your table seems a bit like calling stations especially in the big blind. (some people just feel obligated when they are the only one to call) Then raising the sb any less than $2 in that posistion isnt going to work. And sometimes putting $2 at risk in a $25 bb NL game is just a overall bad idea. Its not a wrong move though. It would probably have gone thru my mind. All though you wouldnt have lost the hand if he folded... you wouldnt have won much either.

Also if he had called preflop and you totally missed the flop you would have been screwed. Or if it came out just like it did you would have had to bet 10 or 15 dollars on the turn to push them out with that weak 2 of spades.

I think I stronger bet on the turn still ultimatly would have gotten the hand for sure.
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