Should I have laid this down?

**Fishodeath** · 03-05-2006

(once again I work on mac, so no histories)
NL tourny

I'm in the small blind (25) with 3100, Villian limps from under the gun with 2500. There are about 3 other limpers from various postions. I have 2 4 off and limp in. Flop comes A 2 4 rainbow.

I check, bb checks, and the villan bets out 200 into the 200 pot (I've seen him make this bet before and usually means top pair good kicker) . All the limpers fold, I raise to 500 (I have an agressive table image so this isnt unexpected). Villian pushes all in.

Should I call?

Turns out he limped utg with AA and now I'm drawing dead.

After thinking about it he could have had A2, A4, 22, 44 just as easily, should I have laid this down to his all in?

**wackomacko** · 03-05-2006

shoulda, woulda, coulda all come to mind as hindsight & work well for monday morning quarterbacking, however i'm thinking go back to basics, remembering that a good player just doesn't use 2 4 os as a start hand in the first place, ever, in any position & always folds it never seeing the flop in the first place!
AMEN

**Aces-o-8s** · 03-05-2006

Seem no matter how often posters are reminded about starting hands, they are simply not getting it - especially in the blinds. It's almost as if being in the blinds is licence to throw out basic common sense and call with any two cards. Some will use pot odds to help make sense of it all like "I was getting 10 to 1 odds so I have call with any two cards"! Being in the blinds should not make playing poor cards any beter than if you were mid or late position. Sure you can loosen up if no-one has entered in before you but you had 4 limpers before it got to you. In LP would you call with 2-4o and 4 limpers? If no, how does it change just because your in the SB? If anything it's an even worse call becasue you have the worse posi ohe flop. 2-4o is a fold from the SB and a check-fold from the BB 99.9% of the time!

In this example you got bushwacked but in most cases you have try and win the pot FAST. A check-raise was an ok play but with the ace up there you had to figure at least one of the limpers was playing Ax and your two mini-pair are very vunreable so rather than risk a check-thru I think you should have lead out and hope to win it on the flop. Going up against a flopped set was tuf luck but in most cases an aggressive 2 pair will usually win it but you don't want to risk an Ax getting his x-kicker or the board paired up and taking over the hand.

**Fishodeath** · 03-05-2006

sure fold 2-4 preflop, pretend I had 78s and the flop came 7 A 8 rainbow if it makes you feel better. The question was about what it takes to lay down bottom two pair.

Say what you will, but if I only have to pay .8% of my current stack to see a flop, I'll call with any hand hoping to hit a hidden monster.

**Eclipse86** · 03-05-2006

i dont think i could have layed this down to villians all in on the flop.. doubt he would be playing A2 or A4 from UTG, and aces probably would have raised pf.. he could have a set of 2s or 4s, but i doubt he would have played them that hard on the flop. i probably call his all in and get busted that hand..

anyways learn to fold those hands pf.. instead of changing the hand to 78s, change ur position to BB, u will get better responses that way i think.

**gder03** · 03-05-2006

Originally Posted by wackomacko

shoulda, woulda, coulda all come to mind as hindsight & work well for monday morning quarterbacking, however i'm thinking go back to basics, remembering that a good player just doesn't use 2 4 os as a start hand in the first place, ever, in any position & always folds it never seeing the flop in the first place!
AMEN

your a plain fool. id like to play you heads up.

OP:
id prolly just lead out and bet this instead of cheking. many times this will get cheked to the turn. but if your gut sais ppl will bet, then chek raise is fine. I think Ak-A2 is more practical for the villan than AA. unlucky.

what it takes to fold bottom two pair? you need him to show strength. in this case you dont let him b/c your the agressor.

**Fishodeath** · 03-05-2006

I can see why betting this is a better plan, I guess I figured with so many limpers, someone had an ace. Thinking back on this hand, after seeing the flop I had visions of busting someones big ace or picking up a decent pot with a check raise.

I guess the only way I see myself getting away from this hand is if I lead out and the guy with trip aces decides to slow play and something on the turn or river scares me into slowing down. If he raises me all in on the flop after I lead out, I think I still call.

**PowerfulRog** · 03-06-2006

PF: FOLD FOLD FOLD FOLD FOLD

Flop: Fire out about 150. If he raises you, it's up to a read... you said top pair nice kicker was your best guess. I don't know how you can lay this down, but I could see doing it given certain player characteristics.

Given your situation I fold/call based on the player.

**SeanyBullets1** · 03-06-2006

I think you played it fine you just got unlucky and outdrawn.

**Mr.McJ** · 03-06-2006

Originally Posted by SeanyBullets1

I think you played it fine you just got unlucky and outdrawn.

Outdrawn? PF it was AA vs 24os. lol.
I actually posted a thread about completing the BB with any 2 cards and the responses in it really made me reconsider my thinking. Here...
Completing the BB from the SB

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