Is Low Limit Holdem just a crap shoot?

scottieboy · #1 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 06:01 AM

All of the following thoughtswords are soley my opinion, and honest feelings towards the game.

I have a friend who totally despises Limit Holdem b/c he says its just dumb luck to win these games. you can push nobody out, and most of the time, the best hand wins.

I used to think just like this. I don't know whether or not I still agree with this frame of mind though.

Limit Holdem is very different then No Limit. I've come to realize that the hands you start with should be ranked a bit differently. IMO. and it becomes even more critical to start with hands that have bigger potential.

IMO, pocket pairs, QQ and under, are worth less than hands like suited connectors, or spaced suited connectors(i.e. J9s, Q10s, KJs) and these pairs are only worth calling the blinds, or calling one raise preflop. Raising will maybe only push 1 or 2 people out if your lucky, and your always prone to people with drawing straights and flushes. even if you DO hit your set.

thats just how i look at it, and i've been practicing these methods while showing a decent winning percentage.

your thoughts?

ChieF · #2 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 06:04 AM

Your friend is dumb let him think like that. The more fish in the sea the more Money in the sea.

BTW- Shoudnt the best hand win?

scottieboy · #3 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChieF

Your friend is dumb let him think like that. The more fish in the sea the more Money in the sea.

BTW- Shoudnt the best hand win?

well yea. i believe it should. thats what is bad about NL. It's very unpredictable.

ChieF · #4 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottieboy

well yea. i believe it should. thats what is bad about NL. It's very unpredictable.

Um your a very confused person. In NL the best hands will win more often because you can make it any price for people to outdraw you. In limit its already a fixed limit so the best hands win less.

Beavis68 · #5 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 06:55 AM

in loose games you have to pick hands that do well against multiple opponents. Made hands like big pockets go down a bit in value because of the reverse implied odds and and drawing hands - particularly strong flush draws - go up in value because they are not affected greatly by other people in the pot.

Here is an example from my post Fundamental Flaw

Quote:

I am trying to understand if morton’s theorem is true and is a legitimate loop-hole in FToP.

The best example I have seen is

Player A holds Ad Kc
Player B holds Ah Th
Player C holds Qc 9c.

Flop is Ks 9h 3h 4d –actually it says that the turn is a “blank”

It is postulated that when the pot is between 6.25 and 8.5bets player A profits when player C CORRECTLY folds.

But according to twodimes.net

Pot if player C folds is equity
Player A 78.6%
Player B 20.5%

Pot if player C calls is equity
Player A 69%
Player B 21.4%
Player C 9.5%

If the pot including a turn bet by Player A and a call by Player B to player C is 6.25BB

If player C folds, player As stake of the pot is 4.91 BBs if player C calls player As share of the new pot 7.25BB pot is 5.00. It is pretty much a wash, the profit is minimal.

you can see, the drawing hand profits by another player staying in the pot, while the made hands share of the pot goes down.

scottieboy · #6 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChieF

Um your a very confused person. In NL the best hands will win more often because you can make it any price for people to outdraw you. In limit its already a fixed limit so the best hands win less.

well your talking about the best hand after the flop and turn. I'm talking about the best hand at the end of all the streets. thats the big difference.

and thats why NL is unpredictable, you dont know what the best hand was half the time.

Joem04 · #7 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottieboy

well your talking about the best hand after the flop and turn. I'm talking about the best hand at the end of all the streets. thats the big difference.

and thats why NL is unpredictable, you dont know what the best hand was half the time.

.......... this doesnt make much sense the best hand at the end is the one that wins, what is so unpredicatable?

scottieboy · #8 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joem04

.......... this doesnt make much sense the best hand at the end is the one that wins, what is so unpredicatable?

the people your playing, and their betting scheme in terms of quantity.

Joem04 · #9 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottieboy

the people your playing, and their betting scheme in terms of quantity.

thats why u gotta look for patterns, personally i think it is easier to tell what someone is holding in NL before limit, im also horrible at limit maybe this is why but i find it harder to get info playing limit

scottieboy · #10 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joem04

thats why u gotta look for patterns, personally i think it is easier to tell what someone is holding in NL before limit, im also horrible at limit maybe this is why but i find it harder to get info playing limit

I find it rather easy to put someone on a hand in Limit. The bluffing game is almost nonexistant. you either have it, or your dont. and the betting will tell you that every hand. a simple check-raise can give you alot of info. and since you know what you have, you should be able to make a pretty decent guess as to whether you should try to win the pot or not..

NL can waste your whole stack on a single hand if you make a mistake. And if you can predict when that will happen, then congradulations, you have nothing to worry about at the NL table.