SSH style of play for limit?

Pok 7's · #1 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 07:32 AM

Although I haven't finished the book I'm planning on implementing the starting hands for the different positions. I've noticed my PF % is still WAY too low in PT so there's a good chance I'm not getting the most out of some of my hands but also looking at the flip side of just limping. Anyway I have a few questions for those who have/do use this style, for example: the different recomended suited hands. Going off of numbers 2 suited cards flops 4 to a flush approx. 11% and makes a flush 35% is this actually profitable over time? Especially the smaller suited cards that are recomended, also if you pair the board with say a J,10s with an overcard on the flop or turn without a flush/straight draw is it worth seeing the hand through assuming there's betting? I've generally been mucking in these spots with more that 4-5 people in the hand.
Also (and I'm sure this is a newbie school of thought with limit) but my PF raises haven't been many because it seems like raising does very little in terms of thining out the field. So if I raise with AQ for example and the board is all rags even with a CB I can be fairly sure someone usually has at least a pair with what's on the board because 5-7 people are still in and they're taking it to the SD 95% of the time. I'm assuming I shouldn't be chasing overcards for 6 outs after the flop so how are strategies like this profitable over the long term? Any help is appreciated.

Beavis68 · #2 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 08:24 AM

that run on paragraph is hard to read, try hitting enter between thoughts.

what is a CB?

Gryff · #3 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beavis68

what is a CB?

A type of radio.

Pok 7's · #4 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 08:32 AM

Okay I inserted a period for my run on, CB - Continuation bet

Beavis68 · #5 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 08:51 AM

if you dont want to bother making it readable, I wont bother responding.

Pok 7's · #6 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 08:57 AM

I tried to make it more readable by inserting a period where it looked to me where there was a run on, I've also seen people use the abbreviation CB for continuation bet on the forum before. Sorry, I'll try again.

The Real DeCoy · #7 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 09:09 AM

If SSH is your first book or just one of the first few, the idea of continuation bets with overcards is dicey and heavily depends on position. If you're early, check, if you're LP raise. Its a feel thing. If you are not currently winning the hand and you think your raise will get you heads up, go for it. If your raise is just going to enduce a bunch a callers, then you are pissing money. I hope this helps.

In regard to your suited connectors question you have to factor how many people are in the hand. I dont play 87s heads up. Its not going to win too often. However if you have 3-4 people in the pot, now you are getting pot odds to hit your flush and its worth seeing the flop. If it doesn't hit 90% of the time I'm out right there. If I get a two-suited flop and the pot odds are good I'll chase. If I get a flop with a pair I usually check unless I think I can get folds out of a raise. Two pair I look to check raise.

Think about the situation you are in. You are not trying to win pots, you are trying to win money. If you are going to play a marginal hand, make sure you get paid handsomely when you win. I hope this helps you.

If you haven't seen "Internet Hold'em" you should get a copy of that book too. I just got SSH so I haven't looked at how they present starting hands, but I liked IH because not only did it tell you what hands to play in which seats, but also how many players you need to have in the hand to make it a profitable venture if you hit. Perhaps SSH does this too and I will be finding out as I read it on my flight to Vegas at the end of the month.

Trons · #8 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 11:42 AM

I know I started losing money after reading SSH. Some of the ideas and suggestions for playing seemed a little too weak and or too strong (depending on position and starting hands). I had a hard time reconciling why I should do that then, but this now.

If you're playing on stars, Unless you're playing the micro tables, you probably won't see too many of the types of tables that the SSH style really takes advantage of. It wasn't until I moved to Paradise that I realized what the book is really talking about. You need to be at a table with a lot of calling stations. You will lose some small pots, but when you win a pot, it's big enough to more then cover the small bets you lost trying to get to the point in the big one.

As far as your continuation bet, I will always make on on the flop. Remember, the people you're playing against don't know if you raised with AJs or AA. The continuation bet is a way to keep them guessing. Anybody who hits top pair on a low board has to worry about any over card that comes. How you handle the hand on the turn and river depends a lot on whether you have a good read on the other people...can you get them to lay down on the river or not.

Basically, I think SSh takes a lot of practice and work before you start getting right. I think a lot of the stratagies and tactics are good, but you have to be able to recognize the situations where they are profitable and that's difficult. If you keep with it, it does pay for itself.

Pok 7's · #9 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trons

If you're playing on stars, Unless you're playing the micro tables, you probably won't see too many of the types of tables that the SSH style really takes advantage of. It wasn't until I moved to Paradise that I realized what the book is really talking about.

As a matter of fact that's what I'm playing now, I recently just started playing limit as a break from NL and am enjoying it more than I thought. Just out of curiousity Trons have you varied the staring hands between the loose and tight table requirements to match the # of players on the flop, or pretty much just stuck primarly with one? If you have done both to adjust to the different # of players do you think it makes much of a difference? I mean for playing a few tables I was considering just sticking to the tight game requirements for the most part. Would I be sacrificing much?

Thanks for the input DeCoy, maybe I'll put that book on my list I still have to finish SSH and I have HOH I & II on the way for future reading.

Trons · #10 (**permalink**) 12-20-2005, 11:01 PM

I think my biggest problem when I started using SSH was my post flop play. I would tend to get to agressive with marginal hands when it was obvious I was beat. Having played different styles of tables, I find that it's not that difficult to switch between starting hands giving the type of table you're at.

It helps from LP because you can actually vary your requirements based on the people already in the hand. From EP, you almost have to have a good idea of what the over all table will do in most hands (and that can change hand to hand.

I found that the best stratagy for me is to play super tight from EP (don't come in if you can't do it with a raise), and loosen up from LP if you're at a loose table. You will have a greater variance because you'll be putting in more bets, but over all you should win more when you hit the big pots. Obviously, when in doubt, fold. It helps if you have a good idea of what you're going to do post flop. I've played sessions where everything was super tight and if I came into the pot, it was with a raise.

Over all, I think SSH helped me with my post flop play more then anything, but be advised, while you may know what the correct move is, you're opponents won't so it's difficult to put them on a hand sometimes because they aren't playing the way they should...this is actually a good thing because it also means they are calling with hands they shouldn't, but sometimes they won't raise (to tell you your beat) when they should so you'll lose because some guy didn't bet his nut str8 when he should have...Again, the amount you lose in those situations should more then be made back when you win