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Go Back PokerForums.org > General > General Poker Discussion > Just thought of somthing that really has confused me!

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Old 12-14-2005, 11:59 AM
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Default Just thought of somthing that really has confused me!

right so you have a flush draw right, pot is say 20$, man A bets 2$ you have the odds to call, you continue to the river and if you play your odds you will in to the river 1 in 3 times with a flush. So my question is this if you gain from the long run from making thous calls does man A lose in the long run? If this is the case if you think somone has a flush draw and your playing limit poker and you have top pair is it worth you betting with your top pair if the pot odds are such that the other man should call?
EDIT: all money in the pot is between you and the man no other person has contibuted to it.

Last edited by Fools-Gold; 12-14-2005 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:05 PM
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If you have a 1:3 chance of making a flush then the other guy has a 2:3 chance of you not making the flush. In limit the other guy cannot raise you enough off your flush so you will fold. In no limit he can. Its two different types of games. If you want to play 1000 games starting from the flop of my AA vs. your 4 flush I'll take that bet.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:08 PM
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Well, first of all, say you have two hearts and then you flop two more. In that position (not knowing what the other guy has), you are over 1 in 3 to make the flush. It is more like 40%. So your odds are a little less than 1 in 2 to make the flush overall.
But then you have to take into account how much money it is to make the call in that position, if you think Man A is on a higher flush draw, etc. So basically, there are a bunch of factors going into deciding whether or not to make the call.

Same thing goes for the other way around. In limit poker, you usually aren't going to bet the other guy on the flush draw out. If he's roughly 40% to make the flush, then if you played the same scenario with the guy say, 100 times in a row, then he'd lose 60% of the time. So it really depends on how much was bet, what position you're in, what you put the other guy on, etc, etc.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:15 PM
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Every bet and call adds to the pot. He has more of the pot than you do.

The bets increase his profit and decrease yours.

for example

Pot 20$

Player b has a 1:4 chance if winning the pot on the next card, player A wins the other 80%.

If player A check and B checks player A has $16 in pot equity player b has $4 in pot equity
If player A bets $4 and B calls, The pot is $28 Player As share is $22.4 His $4 investment increase his share by $6.40 or $2.40 in extra profit. Player Bs share is $5.6 but $4 is the bet he just put in, so his profit shrunk to $1.6.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fools-Gold
right so you have a flush draw right, pot is say 20$, man A bets 2$ you have the odds to call, you continue to the river and if you play your odds you will in to the river 1 in 3 times with a flush. So my question is this if you gain from the long run from making thous calls does man A lose in the long run? If this is the case if you think somone has a flush draw and your playing limit poker and you have top pair is it worth you betting with your top pair if the pot odds are such that the other man should call?
Are you talking about limit or NL? In limit, it is possible for BOTH players to be making the matmatically correct move at the same time. If you're talking NL, then the bettor made a mistake in not betting enough to take away pot odds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fools-Gold
EDIT: all money in the pot is between you and the man no other person has contibuted to it.
This is irrelivant. It doesn't matter HOW the money got into the pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDawg7
Well, first of all, say you have two hearts and then you flop two more. In that position (not knowing what the other guy has), you are over 1 in 3 to make the flush. It is more like 40%. So your odds are a little less than 1 in 2 to make the flush overall.
Unless you or your opponent is all-in, you can't use the odds of hitting your flush by the river. You need to use your odds of hitting it on the NEXT card, which is a little less than 20% or 4-1 against.
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:15 PM
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You actually lose money on the call.

However, you would lose more by not calling... since folding will also cost you your equity in the current pot.

When the money you lose with the call is more then the equity you have in the pot, that's when you should fold.
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