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Go Back PokerForums.org > General > General Poker Discussion > Kill Phil

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Old 12-11-2005, 08:57 AM
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Default Kill Phil

Ok, for those of you that do not know, Kill Phil is the title of a new book on NL tournament strategy. The basic premise of the book is to give a new player a chance to win a NL tournament no matter how good the opposition, e.g. Phil Hellmuth, Daniel N., whoever.

"All-In Baby"

The first part to understand according to the authors is the 2 different tournament styles which they call;

Small Ball

and Long Ball

Anyone familiar with baseball will get the reference, but I'll explain for the brits

Small ball is the Phil Hellmuth, Daniel N., Gus Hansen, etc method. see some cheap flops and nickle and dime your opponents to death avoiding big pots when you have only a small edge.

Long ball is the All-In move. you try to win your chips in one fell swoop instead of slowly chipping away.

Small ball takes a long time to master and requires superior post flop play.

Long ball can be employed by anyone.

What it accomplishes

According to the authors the Kill Phil strategy will do four things

#1 first and foremost it gives you a chance to win, not to sit there like my most newbs or ok tourney players and get blinded off

#2 it frustrates your opponents, as the authors point out the last thing a small baller wants is someone moving in pre-flop. It completely eliminates their post flop edge and has them guessing on whether their hand is the best. and if it is the best is it worth the huge risk.

#3 It instills fear in your opponents about your weird/wild play

#4 after a while your opponents start calling you with hands they shouldn't because they are fed up with your strategy and want to look you up to see if you really have it.



Well to me this strategy is stupid, but as you know I like to think outside the box so I gave it a try in 3 tournamentsthis weekend.

I had a feeling that by only moving in with huge hands I wouldn't be able to accumulate chips early on and I would end up with a smallish stack when the blinds starting to get meaningful.

I couldn't have been more wrong! First let me say that as an experienced player I added something to the overall strategy.

Tournament one 300+ people Steve-O finishes 43rd after AA loses to JK otherwise I'm near the final table.

I moved in twice early got no callers, with AQ from the bb against 2 limpers, and AA. On my third all-in I had KK and was called by 44. was later called by AT, T9s, and other assorted hands

Tournament two 600+ people (the titan freeroll) Steve-O is cruising the whole tournament but goes card dead after the second break and finishes 11th

Well these people called me with just about any ace after I moved in 7 times without getting called

Tournament three 180 people, Steve-O finishes 167th when KK runs into AA.


Everything the authors said would happen did. They berated me and my strategy saying it isn't poker. they got frustrated and called with bad hands and they all wanted to gun for me.

All in all I would say the Kill Phil strategy is very good (especially if you can tweak it to your already solid game) for online tourneys. there are 3 levels, Kill Phil Basic, Kill Phil Basic Plus, Kill Phil expert. each one is more detailed and is closer to a normal strategy but still involves overbets.

I can't really outline the strategy since it is in depth and I couldn't do it justice in a post. But the book is definetly worth getting although the first hundred pages left me very bored.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:27 AM
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basicly you over bet preflop every time you have TT or better, AK AQ or when you have a good spot with a decent hand....

Is that bsicaly what I should understand?

KJ
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:31 AM
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NO.

In the beginning stages you only move all in with AA and KK. I included big steals from the BB with hands like 77+ ATs+ AJ AQ when people only limped in my strategy for advertising reasons.

As the tourney progresses and your stack size changes you move in with other hands as well. Your position also affects what you move in with.

You really need to get the book since the strategy is a lot more complex that it sounds and it would take me 10 full posts to even break the surface.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:40 AM
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Didn't sklansky outline something similar in tournament poker for advanced players?
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:45 AM
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yes but very basic compared to this
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:51 AM
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Obviously this book seems like a good invesment.

Where would I buy this?
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:02 AM
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I got it at amazon, but you could find it probably at any book store
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:24 AM
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I'm half way through Harrington On Hold'em Vol II and he has introduced the concept of Smallball/Longball although he hasn't gone into any great detail as yet - maybe it's in the upcoming chapters.

If you could only pick one book from
1. Sklanski on Tournament Poker for Advance Players
2. Kill Phil
which would you recommend? I'll probably get both eventually but I'll have to build another bookcase soon at the rate I'm buying poker books - lol.

Harrington On Hold'em is a redcommendation from me as it goes deep into the thought process and provides plenty of example "Problems" to illustrate what you should be thinking about and why. I remember hearing Tod Brunson in an interview saying he would ask his dad a question and two years later he would figure out what Doyle meant because while you can tell a person something, they often need to experieance it before they truely understand it. Harrington's book goes a ways in that direction.
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:56 AM
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Out of interest Steve..

I haven't seen the Kill Phill strategy text - I'd be interested in it BUT from what you are saying I beleive I play a version of the long ball game. I have never been a believer in taking down many small pots in tournaments. I never make an all-in irrationally but (apart from the odd blind steal and attempt to pick up trips) I have three moves in a tournment

1] Fold
2] All-in
3] Limp which implies that my next move is all-in.

I have been berated for this approach - but it pays the bills.........
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Last edited by xxdemexx; 12-11-2005 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:58 AM
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Its tough to quickly discuss the strategy because it is very situation dependant despite looking simple on the surface.
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