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  1. #1
    Fish Food
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Default Folding set of jacks on river when queen pairs board; Should I be?

    I got dealt two jacks (one's a club and the other's a heart) on the big blind - Not too shabby if I do say so myself.
    The opponent under the gun five-bets the pot, one in middle position flat-calls and then it comes back around to me.

    I decide to try and get it heads up (I don't want any weak aces or other average hands left in the pot if I can help it), so I re-raise to 12xbb.
    The initial raiser flat-calls and middle position folds after a bit of thought - We're heads up just like I wanted and I'm first to act.

    I flop a set on a straight board of jack of diamonds, queen of clubs, ten of diamonds. I bet a little less than the pot and get flat-called. Now I'm starting to worry.
    The turn is another ten (spades) pairs the board and I'm breathing easy, I check and they check back.
    The river brings a queen of diamonds - Now i'm worried; they bet two thirds of the pot and I curse myself for checking, then fold. Sound ok to everyone, or is that a huge no-no?

    I feel that because they kept flat-calling, my thinking is they're either unsure about their top pair that got there, or else they were chasing some kind of draw in which case I've psyched myself out of a pot once more

  2. #2
    Semi-Pro Moderator KnightofNarg's Avatar
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    OP needs to start saving hand histories

    Don't know if I'd want to 3bet an UTG raiser. Most UTG raises are pretty strong. MP is likely to have some kind of PocketPair/SuitedConnector.

    Flop is fine. Turn is a bet, you can get value from flushdraws, AQ, AK. Gotta fold river.

  3. #3
    Semi-Pro Moderator KnightofNarg's Avatar
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    If you don't have a poker tracker program. Post handhistories to a site like weaktight so you can go back later and post it to here or flopturnriver if it's still troubling you.

  4. #4
    Poker Hustler Trons's Avatar
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    Default

    Need an idea of how you've been playing (abc poker or trappy) and how villian has been playing. Need to know the stakes. Need to know the stack sizes. I say this because the most common hands to 3 bet with a AA, KK and AK. If he's a thinking player, he can put you on one of those hands figures you've given up after you flop C-bet and can make the river move with ATC. Without having an idea of how hes been playing, it's difficult to put him on a range preflop and it's even harder to polarize his hand as he plays it.

    Over all, I don't think I could fold that. I would have to have had played some hands with this guy to have a great idea of how reacts to scary boards.

    Against a complete unknown, I think I would make a crying call at the lower stakes. Most people, in my opinion, who are trying to get value from a hand, tend to bet 1/2 pot or less to give the caller great odds. When I see a larger then 1/2 pot bet on a scary board, I almost always figure it's because they do not want show down. Especially if both players are going to have a decent size stack left (such as early on in a tournament or a cash game.

    As for HH's. I don't mind looking at the hand without them, however, more info is needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason75
    I like trons' advice.
    Trons
    JstTrons
    Toyotatruck

  5. #5
    Semi-Pro Moderator KnightofNarg's Avatar
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    It's a TJQTQ board, any Q beats us, that what makes me not want to call.

  6. #6
    Fish Food
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    I'd tend to agree with your thinking Narg, but I can definitely see your point too Tron - I would tend to agree about the call on the river, but that's because I make bad calls (and because I'd want to know for sure, so I could avoid the mistake next time...), not because I would be able to put them on a range of any sort.

    I'll fold here most times unless I've seen the player make bluffs in the past, in which case I'll definitely have a hard time folding.
    Next time I run into that kind of situation I'll definitely remember to save the hand and put it up here for discussion; Much more information that way :-)
    Last edited by Poker_profiteer; 05-19-2011 at 12:57 AM.

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