***OFFICIAL "Is online poker rigged?" THREAD

[xxdemexx]

Tournaments do have a very high variance if you have lost 80 times in a row that's still only 4000 hands., It is quite possible to have bad runs extending to 18000 hands (thats the figure that sticks out in my mind because a well respected played on 2+2 had done this - I must admit my worst is 2bb/100 over 6k hands).

What's a little more of a concern is the fact that your worried about losing hands.. You might rather be looking at your Return on Investment. You should be selecting your tournaments and playing them in a way to take you into the money. Some tournaments and tournament structures are almost random in thier outcome. This is good from the strong players point of view because a random outcome fattens up fish for ring games and delludes them into thinking they can play poker.. Other tournaments have high overlays, big stacks and slow blind increases (more like poker)..

I've only played ring on Inter/William Hill/Ladbrookes/Littlewoods but in my opinion the games are very soft there..Maybe you should look at Pokerstars/UB where I'm told that the strucures are a lot better for accomplished players.

One thing you might consider is this. If you go all -in with one hand and have an 70% edge then 70% of the time you will win it.

If you go all-in with two hands - each of which has a 70% edge ( i.e twice what you've just done ) you're actually the underdog to survive!!!

You may well have busted out on 80 hands - but was it the second or third all-in you'd made in that tournament?

[xxdemexx]

A couple of things to point out - I would not describe myself as a polished player - I am still learning the game and have a long way to go. Also the 'tournaments' I play are usually for 6 or 10 players in total.
However, as for what makes me think I can beat others on my table - surely if I either call someone elses all-in or choose to go all-in and am called and at that point (however may cards have been dealt) I am ahead, isn't that (usually) the correct call? I'm not talking about getting involved in risky hands where I can afford not to get involved, I'm talking about hands I enter to try and ensure my survival or to knock opponents out when I think the odds are with me. Also (and I know this is a weaker argument) I was beating these same opponents consistently enough in the previous 6 months to be permanently in profit.
Finally - worrying about losing these hands doesn't keep me awake at night (much), but for all my studying of my play, I don't think the calls I am talking about here have been bad and I would make them again.
Thanks for your replies so far.

Hi,

when I say worried about losing hands I'm talking about keeping a long term perspective on what you're doing. When you're ahead its nearly always right to call (you might argue about the bubble). Fair enough , you busted out on hands you can justify. BUT. you should be getting a ROI over all the tournaments you're playing. If you are busting out before you're in the money 80 times in a row and your ROI is negative then the indications are that you've got some leaks. The final hand you bust out on is almost irrelevant -

In truth 80 Tournaments is not a lot - I think the norm is 200 SnG's (same thing really) before you have any idea of if you're a winning player..

Tournament prize structures do distort things. The classic is someone new entering and winning an MTT. They often think they've cracked it not realising that you only reach top 30% about 20% (unless you cheat like me) of the time and top table about 5% of the time if you're good.. and that big first hit will be absorbed by entry fees very quickly.. Three big wins in a row is very possible..

As pointed out above.. use PokerTracker to monitor how you're playing. In many tournamnets Ubertight will take you a long way.. in fact not playing any hands at all will take you a VERY long way but that's a different thread...

[xxdemexx]

Ha.. I got your thread befiore you deleted it

[jaykayy]

And my reply was to your post before you edited it!
You're right, its not many hands, it just seems like it when you're caught in the middle of a losing streak!
Rather than moaning about it maybe I should take a step back and take this as a sign I need to polish my skills a bit more...

[the alex]

There are very reputable posters on 2+2 with over half a million hands logged from PartyPoker on another forum that posted, not only win rates with starting hands, but also how often certain cards hit on the flop, turn, and river. The numbers for each card on each street were seperated by small percentage points.

You have to realize that Party Poker has 6-9k tables running at all times. That means that the same "dealer" is "dealing" 6-9k hands dealt at the same time at random while there are only 52 cards in the deck. It's not out of this world to see some weird "against the odds" stuff in a short amount of time.

Online poker isn't rigged. Online poker players overplay their starting cards on the flop, turn, and river.

[MAYSON]

well stockman I am new to the poker world and online poker I just picked up the game, and I am sure you are just blowin' smoke, but I hope that I stay on win mode for awhile!!

[Campy]

HHAHA... So that's why I lose so much... that damn mafia... you know what.. i would prob believe you... but you see people going to the WSOP winning 100,000$... is that rigged too? or the people that get a chance to go play at the WPT? hell all of poker is rigged, by aliens... believe me... i have seen em... they came to my door, and talked to me.. saying that they are going to make me lose at playing poker for the next 25 years....

But i have lost a lot of money playing online that i would prob not have happened in person.. i am a lot better at home games... but some people suck at home games and are awsome at online... it's just how you play.. and how ur leeks come out...

[pokerpete]

you make your own luck at poker

[muhcat]

My boyfriend thinks its rigged. He said one day he had pocket 3's, which he folded for whatever reason during the game, then two threes came out, and the guy who won had pocket threes. So he is convinced its rigged. Lol.

[bonchkid]

OMG FUCKING POKERY STARS IS T3H RIGGED. WON TIME I W4T(H FOR T33H 9SIX HOURS AND NO 9 OF SPADES EVER COMES ON FLOP!>!@!@! WTFZOR?