***OFFICIAL "Is online poker rigged?" THREAD

[the alex]

I.) To follow up on what Marm said, I have one question for you, Lord Stockman: Why rig online poker?

II.) You're clearly a liar and you haven't played more hands online than everyone here. You haven't played a million hands and if you actually "logged" your play online, as a pro would, you would know how many hands you've played and know how long it would take to play 1 million hands.

III.) If you were beating online poker, how was it rigged and why are you telling people? Clearly, it was rigged for you to win. If online poker were rigged for me to win, I'd keep it as my little secret, take the money, and run.

IV.) If this bullshit is all you have to contribute to this forum with so many topics of discussion, you'd have to be a bad player. You are not a valued member of PF.org and if I weren't a Mod, I'd put you on my "ignore" list because you have nothing to say about anything. Contribute to the forum and explain yourself when you make a statement. If you refuse to do either, please don't come back.

[Diggler]

Sorry about previous post folks, I thought this thread was talking about the same ol shit...and anyways...If you feel so strongly about the fact that online poker is rigged...how do feel about the fact that the government has full access to withdrawal our bank accounts in the event of economy collapse? Hopefully you have your money in somewhere other than the bank! Just a point. To me it's the same thing. Could these companies rig things to their advantage? Of course! Could the gov't? Of course! Point is...why mess with your bread and butter?

If I were them, and my main income could suffer as a result of poor business practice...especially an industry that is pratically printing money...I would be just plain stupid.

The End.

[Pigeon]

There certainly is speculation into weather or not poker is rigged.

My personal view is that it is set up in a way to make the poker site the most money. Makes sense? Business = Money, More money = good = business = $$.

Its important to realise that Poker sites are run from overseas countries with servers located on private land in Canada/USA

Another important thing is to take note that the backbone of poker is odds.

If a poker site did want to manipulate cards for new players then take it away then they would easily be able to accomplish such a task by A) Hiding behind the law of a different country B) Hiding behind the odds

I'm willing to bet that there are a few legit sites and a few unlegit sites.

I would think someone nieve if they didn't at least awknowlage the real life possibility that there are fraudulent people in this world.

In reallife nobody would call someone an idiot or tell them to get a grip on reality if they accused a player at the table of dealing from the bottom or some shit like that

So why is it so absurd that internet poker could be rigged.



From my personal experience on partypoker I observed huge statistical underdogs that in all sense shoulnd't hit, yet do.

Odds are odds but in a sample size of 1 million the real values start to take shape of the theoretical values.

Now observing underdogs coming up more than they should only lead me to belive that something isn't totally correct, which is why I belive that there might be a problem with online poker.

However it's still a big game of skill and it wouldn't be financial suicide if a skilled player took his roll and invested it on a crooked site, they should still be able to make money.

I also don't think the creater of this thread made a strong arguement, he didn't provide any evidence as to why his claim may be real and strung it all together in a big paragraph.

[Beavis68]

People do acknoweldge the possiblility, that is why people examine their PokerTracker type data bases regularly.

There are millions of hands logged, and no evidence that any of the major sites are anything but legit.

[Marm]

There certainly is speculation into weather or not poker is rigged.

My personal view is that it is set up in a way to make the poker site the most money. Makes sense? Business = Money, More money = good = business = $$.

Not if you dont have any players. 100,000 players at 5% rake makes more than 10,000 at 30%, which about where a rigged site would draw (Increased pot size equals out to about a 25% increase in rake)

Its important to realise that Poker sites are run from overseas countries with servers located on private land in Canada/USA

As far as I know, there are no domestic based servers. and some of the ownership of sites is from domestic companies, but none of the operational ends is domestic. Canada does have some (UB is one) servers run from Indian reservations.

Another important thing is to take note that the backbone of poker is odds.

If a poker site did want to manipulate cards for new players then take it away then they would easily be able to accomplish such a task by A) Hiding behind the law of a different country B) Hiding behind the odds

Knowing the odds is what exposes theses sites.. not hides them. Data logging software, such as PT or PO shows this for us.

I'm willing to bet that there are a few legit sites and a few unlegit sites.

While I don't deny the fact that rigged sites exist, the major sites with 90% of the traffic, aren't. They can't be, they make too much money too be.

I would think someone nieve if they didn't at least awknowlage the real life possibility that there are fraudulent people in this world.

Naive. Jsut like the bottled water, but backwards. Spooky isn't it? That product sold in stores, that is normally delivered to our house for 'free', is Naive, but backwards?

In reallife nobody would call someone an idiot or tell them to get a grip on reality if they accused a player at the table of dealing from the bottom or some shit like that

Happened last week.

From my personal experience on partypoker I observed huge statistical underdogs that in all sense shoulnd't hit, yet do.

Odds are odds but in a sample size of 1 million the real values start to take shape of the theoretical values.

Now observing underdogs coming up more than they should only lead me to belive that something isn't totally correct, which is why I belive that there might be a problem with online poker.

Lets see the records for the millions of hands that you have personally observed and tracked. PLease post yours, not EdwardR's.

[Pigeon]

Hi

I haven't played partypoker in a while, nor have I played a million hands.

I was saying in a sample size of 1 million...

It's high school math, sample sizes, probability and statistics.

Now I don't think personal logs would be able to uncover minor statistical improbabilities.

My personal belief is that the sites are made to operate in a way that provokes action, not gives people good cards then robbs them.

I've played less online hands then real life, and seen more JQK, QKA, JJK flops than I have in real life.

So I just kinda think that the odds have bene tilted... not that they go in there give u crazy good cards when u start or anything.

[jaykayy]

I'm pretty sure what answers I'll get to this (you make your own luck in poker, a player who thinks he's unlucky is probably a bad player etc) but here goes anyway...

I have been playing online for about six months with some success (won more money than I've lost) - normally single table tournaments, rarely for more than an entry fee of £30. Obviously I have had good streaks and bad streaks, but over the last 6 weeks the bad streak I have had on one site (a well known UK bookmaker) has gone way, way beyond the law of averages.

In tournaments you nearly always have to go all in at some point, or at least put someone else all in. As a guess, I would say of the last 80 all-ins pre flop or pre turn that I HAVE STARTED AS FAVOURITE, I have lost at least 75 of them. These have ranged from ones where I've had a pair and my opponent has hit one of his overcards, to (on 5 occasions) I have had 2 pair, trips or a straight and have been beaten by a flush with four consecutive suited cards on the flop, turn and river to go with his one pocket suited card.

I cannot see any reason why the website owners would have anything against me, but also what at first I accepted as an annoying losing streak seems to have gone way past that.
I have been on the good side of a bad beat many times and know this is part of the beauty of poker, but I find it very hard to believe this is just a bad streak. I have stopped playing recently after losing all the money I had won and more on top, but want to carry on, although probably on a different site.

Has anyone else had any experiences like this, or questioned the honesty of sites (or am I just a poor player who can't accept that I lose because I'm not very good)??

[Irexes]

I've taken some brutal beats this week (see my blog)

But I am 100% sure that it is a straight game.

Why would the house make it otherwise??

Probability is a complex thing, part of which is the clustering of random events. If you toss a coin 100 times you will get a least one run of 6 or 7 heads or tails in a row.

Regarding your streak it is likely your perception is different to reality, I'd suggest Pokertracker so you can accurately assess your beats.

The difficulty is that when you are on a losing run it is difficult to stickt to your "winning" game and that can cause further losses.


All that said, you will find plenty of people who will agree that it is rigged. Some of them won't even be wearing tinfoil hats.

[jaykayy]

I have been tracking my hands, which is why I was sure about the 5 losses to flushes flop to river. I think it is definitely true that it has affected my game and I have made some decisions I wouldn't normally, but the better hand going in to an all-in should win more than 5 out of 80 times...

[coash]

Probability baby....75/80 you lost, maybe if you pay another 1000 hands you would win all. it's all possible. best to just forget about the beats. your pocket cards are randomly dealt anyway.