Home
News
Articles
Site Reviews
Book Reviews
Interviews
Chat
Tournaments
60% Rakeback
50% RakebackNew!
125% Rakeback
Probabilities
Glossary
Poker Gear
Links
Advertise
User Name  
 
Password
Cookie?  
 
 
Poker Players on Launchpoker.com
LaunchPoker.com provides you with all the information you need about this year's WSOP event, from the 2008 WSOP schedule to the latest 2008 WSOP updates.
Online poker reviews of rooms such as Full Tilt Poker, Poker Stars and Titan Poker.
Extras

RakeBack
PokerListings

Go Back PokerForums.org > General > General Poker Discussion > Comments on Poker edge ?

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 09:11 AM
Holis's Avatar
River Rat
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 440
Trade Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Holis
Default Comments on Poker edge ?

Was checking this out from another forum....

http://www.poker-edge.com/index.php

Anyone use it ?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 09:44 AM
xxdemexx's Avatar
Poker Professional
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,815
Trade Rating: (0)
Default blunt edge

Hi Hol,
looks like a PT derived product.They might have got PT and simply observed 30 tables at a go (possible) for a few weeks. I even heard that ppl were buying PT databases at one point.

They have a lot of players logged BUT, so have I, and very few of them last a week so the dataset probably isn't that useful.

Before you get someones game down I reckon you need 200 hands and ppl don't last this long!! Another problem is that they rarely show the winning hand so you can't get too much of a handle.

At the lower limits then you're best to think 'fish' all the time. At the higher limits you really know whose bets to respect-if you don't know... then move down. Maniacs are self evident.

Looking through the site I also see some errors in analysis. "aggression > 2 = bluffer" - I get postf aggression (NL) of 3 (peaking at 4.5 on turn).. I do bluff sometimes but it would wrong to catagorise me as systematic bluffer and it would cause me a great deal of fun if you did so.

I'd be interested to hear if anyones used it... AND what figures it has for me ..one of my aliases id xxdemexx - the other aliases are secret

PT still seems to be the best option I think.
__________________
See me playing $10/$20NL like it was play money

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...405&q=xxdemexx

Doberman: "but Sarge, isn't poker gambling and just luck?"
Sgt. Bilko:" not the way I play it"

Last edited by xxdemexx; 05-02-2005 at 09:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 11:52 AM
Holis's Avatar
River Rat
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 440
Trade Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Holis
Default

I tend to agree

TY for responding.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:03 PM
Fish Food
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4
Trade Rating: (0)
Default

Hello Everyone,
I am the founder of PE, and I thought i'd make an appearance to clarify some things and answer any questions.

First off, our product does not use PT in any way. We have our own database engine and client software that was created from the ground up. We are collecting data on hundreds of thousands of hands 24hrs/day, so it is much more than a personal PT database. We have many hundreds of gigabytes of hand history data compiled into our database.

xxdemexx: "Before you get someones game down I reckon you need 200 hands.."

This is precisely why PE was created! When you sit down at a random poker table, PE will most likely have at least a few hundred hands tracked on a majority of your opponents. Depending on the limit you play at, PE will often have thousands of hands tracked for 80-90% of the players.

"At the lower limits then you're best to think 'fish' all the time. At the higher limits you really know whose bets to respect-if you don't know... "

I think you would be quite surprised!! With PE running, you can quickly scan the tables and see how many good and bad players are at each table. You will be very surprised to see how many super tight players there are at 1/2, 2/4 and 3/6. And how many loose players there are at 10/20 and 15/30! My point is that our database is concrete proof that there are plenty of tight and loose players at ALL limits. Thus, game selection becomes all the more important. At 2/4, if you pick a random table, there's a good chance that it will have 5 very tight players (VPIP<18) and only 1 or 2 loose players (VPIP>33). However, if you open up 4 tables there's a good chance one of these tables will have 4+ loose players. PE will allow you to quickly identify which tables are the good ones, thus giving you the best chance to make the most profit.

xxdemexx: "Looking through the site I also see some errors in analysis. "aggression > 2 = bluffer" - I get postf aggression (NL) of 3 (peaking at 4.5 on turn).. I do bluff sometimes but it would wrong to catagorise me as systematic bluffer and it would cause me a great deal of fun if you did so."

I believe the page you are referring to is this one:
http://www.poker-edge.com/stats.php

This is where I state: "I like to consider players above 2.0 to be clear-cut aggressive and players below 1.0 to be clear-cut passive. Remember - aggressive players are much more likely to be bluffing or semi-bluffing when betting and raising."

I never meant to say that aggression>2 means a big bluffer. I was simply stating that more aggressive means more likely to be bluffing or semi bluffing. For example, if a player with aggression<1 raises or bets, you can almost be certain he has a strong hand. But a player with an aggression>3 has the *capability* to be bluffing or semi bluffing. Also, I was referring to limit stats with those numbers. The Aggression numbers for NL shuould be slightly higher.

Thanks for reading this far. I just felt obligated to clear up a few points. I'd also be happy to answer any questions you may have. In case you disagree with some of my points above about the number of tight/loose players at all limits.. I suggest you take our 3-day free trial and see for yourself. Just opening up some random tables at various limits and looking at the distribution of tight/loose players will show what I am talking about.

Jason (PE Founder)

Last edited by PokerEdge; 05-02-2005 at 12:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:08 PM
Marm's Avatar
PokerForums God
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 9,296
Trade Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Marm Send a message via MSN to Marm
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerEdge

xxdemexx: "Looking through the site I also see some errors in analysis. "aggression > 2 = bluffer" - I get postf aggression (NL) of 3 (peaking at 4.5 on turn).. I do bluff sometimes but it would wrong to catagorise me as systematic bluffer and it would cause me a great deal of fun if you did so."

I believe the page you are referring to is this one:
http://www.poker-edge.com/stats.php

This is where I state: "I like to consider players above 2.0 to be clear-cut aggressive and players below 1.0 to be clear-cut passive. Remember - aggressive players are much more likely to be bluffing or semi-bluffing when betting and raising."

I never meant to say that aggression>2 means a big bluffer. I was simply stating that more aggressive means more likely to be bluffing or semi bluffing. For example, if a player with aggression<1 raises or bets, you can almost be certain he has a strong hand. But a player with an aggression>3 has the *capability* to be bluffing or semi bluffing. Also, I was referring to limit stats with those numbers. The Aggression numbers for NL shuould be slightly higher.
OK explain this then, I have an Aggression factor of 3.1, and I almost NEVER bluff. Go figure... Sure hope everybody else signs up for this then, here comes the action!
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:14 PM
Fish Food
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4
Trade Rating: (0)
Default

Marm,
PE will give you the numbers, it's up to the user to interpret what they mean. I laid out some general guidelines for how to interpret the numbers. Again, the data I used in the postFlop Aggression chart is for full (10 player) limit games. The numbers will be different for No Limit, and for Short (6-max) tables. Also, the Post Flop aggression number is somewhat dependent on how tight the player is as well. If a player is only seeing a flop with aces, he will have a high Aggression rating, but he won't be bluffing either!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:26 PM
xxdemexx's Avatar
Poker Professional
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,815
Trade Rating: (0)
Default Poker edge

Ty for responding.

I agree that table selection is very important. I've worked on ways to select PP tables in the absence of flop entry. It can be done but I found table character changes very rapidly. PPL leave, your play itself, if your any good, tightens even the fishiest of environments - in the end for the low limits (0.5/1 and below) I gave up -even with PT.

The main advantage of PT is analysing your own game.

I don't know if PE scans all of Party at the same time.I think technically this is very difficult (you can only have 4 tables open) any scanning software of this nature would be useful.

I guess with your emphasis on VP/IP this is mostly a limit tool. What would be useful (for NL) is analysis of amount bet (volume). I have yet to see this done. In NL pot averages, flop entries really tell us little about the texture of a table. Limit,for matematical reasons lends itself to long term averages. In NL a whole nights work takes place over three hands.


It's an interesting product... I haven't tested fully it so can't comment other from the web page.

But TY for the reply and incidently what does it say about me ?
__________________
See me playing $10/$20NL like it was play money

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...405&q=xxdemexx

Doberman: "but Sarge, isn't poker gambling and just luck?"
Sgt. Bilko:" not the way I play it"

Last edited by xxdemexx; 05-02-2005 at 12:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:50 PM
Fish Food
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4
Trade Rating: (0)
Default

xxdemexx,
We don't scan every single PartyPoker table, but we scan a large enough sample size that we get a good sample on a vast majority of the players. I agree with you that table character changes very rapidly, mostly because of players leaving and sitting. My table selection process involves constantly moving from one table to another and being on many waitlists. PE alerts me whenever a table is bad, and I'm consisently on several waitlists for "good" tables. Thus i'm moving around alot, but always playing at a table where I'm surrounded by weak players. I actually do this while 4-tabling, so I'm consisently playing on 3-4 "good" tables at all times.

We are adding some NL specific stats in the upcoming version. Mostly related to all-ins - how often, and how strong.

As for your stats... I'll list some of the key stats. I see mostly NL25 full ring games, so I'll only list those stats.

xxdemexx
VP$IP: 10.26%
PreFlopRaise%: 4.10%
PostFlop Aggr: 3.22
Showdown Win%: 74.07%
If Bet on Flop, You win 83.3% of your showdowns
If Raise on Flop, You win 100% of your showdowns
If Bet on Turn, You win 77.78% of your showdowns
If Raise on Turn, You win N/A of your showdowns
If Bet on River, You win 100% of your showdowns
If Raise on River, You win 100% of your showdowns

You seem to be ultra tight, and fairly aggressive. I would NOT want to get in a showdown against you I can use the "If Bet/Raise.. Showdown Win%" stat to see that you don't bluff that much, and I should fear your bets and raises.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:56 PM
Marm's Avatar
PokerForums God
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 9,296
Trade Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Marm Send a message via MSN to Marm
Default

Just curious... how many hands is that for?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:58 PM
Fish Food
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4
Trade Rating: (0)
Default

That's over a sample of about 1000 hands. It's obviously not as good as 10,000 hands, but it's much better than 30 hands, and more than enough to see what type of player he is.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:49 AM.

   Designed by
      
No Deposit Bonus
Poker Strategy
Poker Rooms
PartyPoker Bonus Codes
Online Poker Strategy
Online Casino Bonuses
Pokerspiele
Casinos That Accept USA Players
Poker Rakeback
Full Tilt bonus code
Rakeback
Poker Site USA
Nowadays in the Internet the Players are looking for a good Casino Bonus to find the best possible options for online Roulette.There is now the option of RtlPoker and a nice Casino Bonus to play some other games then just Poker.
The ideal casino site for gokkasten and even online poker including online casino games that can be found on mijn online casino, your casino information site for when gambling online or even offline.
Party Poker bonus code & room review
Tony G talks about his experinces in his blog
REVIEW OF PARADISE POKER WEBSITE
Online Poker Room Directory and latest poker news
Best Online Poker info on Internet!
Ultimate Bet new 40% deposit bonus
Copyright © 2004-2008 PokerForums.org, a Merendi Networks Inc. project.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.