Poker and Gambling...Opinions Anyone?

poker · #1 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 02:08 PM

My friend is trying to tell me that poker is pure gambling. He says that every time you play a hand thats not the best hand, youre gambling with it. The logic is undeniable but I mean theres so much more to it than playing a hand that isnt the best.

He told me that every time youre not all in with pocket aces, youre gambling. Every other hand you play could potentially be beaten by a better hand preflop, therefore its gambling. I'm trying to argue how poker is more than gambling. Its a game that requires ridiculous amounts of skill to be good at.

He says its just gambling with a little skill. Its so much more than that but right now I have nothing to say because every arguement I make, he says its gambling.

Anyone have any insights?

placidcasual345 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 02:16 PM

if you want to take it literally then he's probably correct as gambling is defined as doing something risky that might result in loss of money or failure. there's a guy at work who bets on dogs and horses and i've had this discussion with him before. my point is that in poker you have a lot more control over the outcome of the game than you do over a greyhound making it round 4 bends whilst chasing a mechanical hare without getting knocked over. strictly speaking tho it is gambling.

ypsieast · #3 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 02:18 PM

From this thread: Is Poker Gambling?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ypsieast

Gambling: To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest

Yes, by definition, poker is gambling. Money is bet on uncertain outcomes. This is a fact and the nature of the game.

What differenciates poker from other forms of gambling is that the level of uncertainty of outcomes is changing. Not only that, but it changes by a wide margin from one situation to the next. Furthermore, poker allows the participants great control over their finacial exposure to different situations, based on their analysis of the outcome's (un)certainty. i.e. the difference of financial exposure between folding pf and pushing all in is huge and is at the discretion of the player.
A roulette wheel or slot machine offers no variance on the uncertainty of outcomes. Its always the same.
Blackjack offers little control of financial exposure. BJ players put their money in before they get any cards. There is just a very small ability to increase finacial exposure upon realizing a more certain (less uncertain) outcome (doubling down etc..).

For Poker, it is this highly scalable ability to increase fiancial exposure to more certain outcomes (what we call EV+ play) that makes it a game of skill.

This is another thread that discusses poker as gambling: Poker is Not Gambling

Welcome to the site.

Bagonirix · #4 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

He told me that every time youre not all in with pocket aces, youre gambling.

Aces aren't 100% to win.

AbsoluteZzZero · #5 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 03:11 PM

Your friend is looking at it on a hand-to-hand basis where there is a certain amount of luck. But the luck only go's as far as what cards are dealt. There is so much more to it, though. There are the things such as reading your opponents, betting patterns, odds, pot odds, ect. that don't involve luck.

There is another aspect that is much more broad than each hand - money management. If you have game play skills(what I mentioned above, for example), money management will allow you to make your losses smaller and your wins larger.

If you judge it hand by hand, then, yes, it might be mostly luck if your not a very good player. But when you judge it from the long run, the luck factor dwindles down significantly.

poker · #6 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 03:27 PM

aces arent 100% to win thanks Bagon lol..his point is that aces is the best possible hand to have preflop so you absolutely know you have the best hand and its not a gamble. thanks for the other replies

eldave04 · #7 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 06:06 PM

AA preflop is still a gamble, aces routinely get cracked

poker · #8 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 06:22 PM

but the point is youre all in with what you KNOW is the best hand you know what i mean. its really about having the nuts at the time and you do

VGrozny · #9 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

but the point is youre all in with what you KNOW is the best hand you know what i mean. its really about having the nuts at the time and you do

thats why its called gambling. you can go in with the best hand and still lose to 72 off. its a risk. just because you know the odds or have the odds on your side doesn't change what it is. a gamble.

mayhoon27 · #10 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 08:41 PM

so everytime ur all in preflop with AA, ur not gambling?! i lost 4 very big pots today with AA preflop. obviously ur friend doesnt play poker, obviously your friend doesnt have very much money, obviously your friend is a MORON and should go play some slot machines with AA preflop