Some of you might remember from HH's that I used to post when I first signed up to PFO that I used to play really scared. I always feared the 1 or 2 hands that could beat me and I used to get just ripped apart by you guys for laying down what everyone thought was the best hand.

Now I find myself on the opposite end of the spectrum. It's like I assume that all my opponents are complete idiots unless they've proven otherwise. This seems to get me in all kinds of trouble and I'm finding myself incapable of making tough laydowns. That's not to say that I'm donking off all my money like a fish or anything but I am getting attached to hands that I probably should be capable of laying down. For example last night I had Q/Q and stuck in a 3bb raise from EP, called a decent re-raise and then wound up getting the rest of my chips in the middle when the flop came 258. My opponent turned over As and I busted out of the SnG.

I'm not exactly sure what I expect to get out of this thread. Maybe it will be helpful if you guys tell me how you play an opponent that you don't have any kind of read on? Or how you guys rate the skills of the average unknown player? Or how you deal with laying down a hand that you're not sure is the best one or not? (This is going to sound stupid but I can't stand making a laydown and never knowing if it was the right move or not. At least when I call and see my opponent's cards I KNOW wether or not it was the right move and I won't have to spend the next hour second guessing myself.)

Anyone?

I usually hit a table thinking that everyone's an idiot, but I'll make the laydowns when they play back at me because if they're idiots, they'll pay me off when I'm more comfortable with my holding. If they don't pay me off later, then i made the right laydown.

So, there's a healthy medium inthere, but I know what you mean.

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I know what you mean, depending on what level of SnG that AA Vs QQ was I think it's fair enough to go broke with that. I'd play that as theres a good chance your up against any ace or 99+, I think that makes it +EV.

I have to agree with Alex tho on making the lay downs early on, the other night I was in a $22 SnG. About the third hand in and I raised from UTG+1 with AQ, 1 call and then BAM all-in from the button. I figured there's a good chance I'm in front but folded anyway and so did the other guy. About 4 hands later he did it to someone else and then about 5 or 10 hands after that I had AQ again from early position and he did the exact same thing. This time I called and he showed AT.

The read is everything, there's virtually no way he could have had AA, KK or QQ on all 3 occasions so I can make the call with a good chance that he's just playing any ace or small pairs hard. Ok if he has a small pair I'm behind but still a 50/50 (ish) if he has a smaller ace (as he did) then I'm in great shape to double up (Which I did )

You have to think...

"I'll let you get away with it this time, but don't keep on"

make a mental (or physical) note on him and if he keeps it up you know you can have him when your in a better position.

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Bad Beat of the week 27/08/2006:

:kh :jd

Flop - :jc :3s :6d I raise 2/3 pot, Villian calls.

Turn :kd - I raise to put villian all in, he calls

he flips over :4d :4s :eek:

River :4c :rant: :mad: :rant: :eek:

Occassionally I wont let the worst hands go, when I'm not getting good cards and there's something fishy going on.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1690)
Hero (t1160)
CO (t2100)
Button (t1200)
SB (t1180)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1360)
UTG+1 (t1810)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6, 9.
UTG calls t20, 3 folds, Hero calls t20, CO raises to t60, 3 folds, UTG calls t40, Hero calls t40.

Flop: (t210) 8, 4, 6 (3 players)
UTG bets t80, Hero calls t80, CO raises to t240, UTG folds, Hero calls t160.

Turn: (t770) T (2 players)
Hero bets t300, CO raises to t820, Hero raises to t860, CO calls t40.

River: (t2490) Q (2 players)

Final Pot: t2490

Results in white below:
Hero has 6c 9c (one pair, sixes).
CO has Ad Jc (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins t2490.

Then again I'm laying down hands that I didn't when I started with Poker. Especially TPGK.

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ICM / EV Calculator and other free poker software

I am starting to learn (the hard way) that most bets from these donks are exactly what they appear to be. The avg donk is so passive that he is only betting or raising if he has you....save your bets when they come at ya.


Its the good players that I will get fancy with.

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Please use me as a referral on www.Pokersourceonline.com my referral code is antneye

i used to. i used to think the only way to play was extremely tight, any good lag player i saw i would think was a complete moron and lose all of my money to him.

alex made a really good point as well.

Tightagressive, I used to be the same way and sometimes I still find myself slipping into that mentality. I'd sit down at a table with someone that I had 200 PT hands on and PAHUD would show me his stats and I'd think "wow what a donk! He sees 55% of the flops and is over-agressive....but wait...he's been making a steady profit? How!!!" Now I realize that there are alot of ways to play poker and they aren't all just playing tight.

Something from Zen slightly paraphrased,

Everyone loses hands but

Good players lose with good hands.

Bad players lose with bad hands.


If you're getting beat with QQ on a low rag flop then I wouldn't worry about it.