Hey

I was reading phil helmuths book play poker like the pros, and he said somthing interesting the advises a supertight strategy playing only the top 10 handes when your a beginner being

AA
KK
QQ
AK
JJ
TT
88
99
77
AQ

(In no particular order here)

I was woundering maybe instead of me playing looser tha this supertight stratregy at the micros maybe if i played say $1-$2 limit with this strategy i could observe beter play and hopefully not adjust my play and pickup bad habbits cos of how loose and aggressive they are at the micros.

Cheers, what do ya think of his strategy and my idea of using it?

Obviously when i got better i would try and introduce more strating hands, but i dont mind being patient

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Early on in most low limit or re-buy tourney, I play just about any 2 cards that I hit a flop with.. Suited connectors 56+, 1 gappers 6-8+, any 2 paint... Phil's strategy is a huge flaw early in most online tourney play where your MAIN objective is to accumulate chips, and you dont do that waiting for monsters.. I'm better off being aggressive in the first 2 levels and gaining 500-1000 chips when I can get them 50-100 at a time and go in the later levels with at least 800-1K if not more chips ahead of the average. It gives you much more maneuverability, and allows you to play more poker.

Ex raising 89s in the CO in an un-opened pot and making a continuation bet on a flop might have missed you. 9/10 times it will get you the blinds+raise which may be 5-600 chips. But, if your opps only have 12-1300 chips and you have them covered 2-1 they are much less inclined to play back at you and let that 100 or 200 chips go..

If you want real tourney strategy that is more applicable to online play, read Kill Phil and leave PPLTP on the nightstand. It is much more suited to live play IMHO. It does apply somewhat to online play, but telling you to only play the top 10 hands is BS, because guys like me that are SLAA are going to have a big advantage when we see more flops, and have good post flop play. It's not really playing poker when you see AA and hit ALL-IN. Playing poker is seeing 78s in mp, raising to isolate, and getting people to lay down better hands by outplaying them. You'll be MUCH further ahead when you do that! You can use Phils strategy and play airtight until you open up your game, but waiting for top 10 hands in online play is going to generally leave you short stacked and up against the wall..

One of the Sats I played yesterday I had T15K at the break, and had a 4200 spread on the field... I had exactly one hand where I had one of those top ten hands, and it was #10.

2 PERFECT examples, 2 of the 3 first hands in my first tourney today of why you dont wait for top 10 hands...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (7 handed) CP hand converter

MP2 (t3000)
CO (t2960)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1510)
BB (t1500)
Hero (t3060)
MP1 (t3000)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
Hero calls t20, MP1 calls t20, MP2 calls t20, 1 fold, Button calls t20, SB completes, 1 fold.

Flop: (t120) , , (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t60, MP1 calls t60, MP2 calls t60, Button folds, SB calls t60.

Turn: (t360) (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t60, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t60, SB folds.

River: (t480) (2 players)
Hero bets t60, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: t540

Hand #2
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) CP hand converter

UTG+1 (t2860)
MP1 (t3000)
MP2 (t2960)
MP3 (t1480)
CO (t1450)
Button (t1430)
SB (t2980)
Hero (t3400)
UTG (t2920)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
UTG calls t20, 2 folds, MP2 calls t20, 1 fold, CO calls t20, Button calls t20, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (t110) , , (5 players)
Hero bets t40, UTG calls t40, MP2 folds, CO calls t40, Button calls t40.

Turn: (t270) (4 players)
Hero bets t60, UTG folds, CO calls t60, Button calls t60.

River: (t450) (3 players)
Hero bets t60, CO folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: t510

Were they great hands, NO, but it put me T800 up on the table in the first 3 hands.... That's 5 orbits of blinds in level 5....

One more for good measure....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) CP hand converter

CO (t4230)
Button (t3260)
SB (t2920)
BB (t2910)
UTG (t1420)
UTG+1 (t1270)
MP1 (t1500)
Hero (t3720)
MP3 (t2750)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with , .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 calls t20, Hero calls t20, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t100) , , (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets t20, MP1 calls t20, Hero calls t20, SB calls t20, BB calls t20.

Turn: (t200) (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets t20, MP1 folds, Hero raises to t60, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: t280

It's all about accumulating chips...... I don't usually get this aggressive, but you see where I'm coming from......

Is this for Cash or tournament play? I can understand this list more if its for cash play, since has already been said the early stages of tournaments are about building a chip stack, and considering you might NEVER get these hands dealt to you in a tournament well then that puts paid to that strategy.

Its all well and good playing ONLY certain hands but what happens when you get AJ in late position and everyone has pretty much folded around to you, do you fold because its not on your list?

What about when there are 5-6 limpers in the pot and you get a pocket pair of 66-22 do you fold, because I dont because im getting odds on them to call, its about 8-1 on flopping a set. I know that a lot of the time if someone raises big with AK vs 22 and the flop comes Ax2 i can pretty much stack them there and then.

Those are just a few situations in which hand charts dont consider - you can stick to that chart and use it as a base guideline but there are lots and lots of OTHER things to consider.

yeah but just dude those are surly unprofitiable plays in the long run?

but i dont really do tourneys ina cash game limit person

and he does advocate that, dizzy, you pay attention to whats going on around and not mechanically play them 10

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Umm..... I suppose...

All depends on the situation. Like I said, that's not normally how I play, like raising with a pair of 9's on a board with 2 A's on it.. If he could have beat me, he would have let me know. If I check it down I'm probably not going to win, but he could be drawing to anything and I want info, info in poker usually isn't free.. But, I didn't think he had the A, and I wanted to know and I won the pot.. If I dont, it didn't cost me much, but got me alot kind of thing..

Look, all I'm trying to say is if you play mostly cash games, then try to stick with Brat boys advice, if your playing alot of tournaments, throw the MF'r out the window because your not going to be really succesful long term IMHO. You HAVE to accumulate chips in the early stages of a tourney, you cant always do that waiting on top 10 hands. Late in a tourney, yeah you need to sometimes wait on big hands. But, if your in the top 5-10% of chips, then it gives you a chance to play more marginal hands from late position cheap. You cant do that if you dont have chips. If I get a good run of cards early, esp in rebuys then it's usually AI every other hand and off to the races. THAT is how those tournies are. But you also need know how to extract chips with marginal hands on tight passive tables whether in micro NL cash, or in tournies...

ok cheers i hear ya, i know sweet fa about tourney play

cheers

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I used that top 10 list (and the extra hands for late position) for a while when I played the $25NL and $50NL games. It works well in those games. You'll leave some money on the table, but not much because you get paid off so often. I built the beginnings of my bankroll on that top 10. It taught me to play the flop/turn/river better. The aggression helped me isolate and I learned to put people on hands better.

For limit, I'm not a fan that list. The winnings don't overweigh the blinds you lose and the pots you lose by being stubborn at times when you're running badly. No book is useful in every as there's no one way to play profitable poker. You can only play your table right.

I'd actually say to incorporate all of the strategies that he advises. Nothing in those hold 'em sections are far too advanced, though he labels them in terms of beginner's, intermediate, and advanced. I'd stay away from the suited connectors because you'll need the experience to play full hands properly before incorporating these into your play.

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I built a pretty good SnG strategy from the top 10, top 15, and majority play hands based on position, number of players left, and blinds.