This I disagree with.

I have lost that pot. Now to me, where that money goes after it is no longer mine, I am not affected by it. If there was no rake, it wouldn't matter, as I will never see that money again anayways, short of winning it back. The house rake only directly affects you when you are being paid.

Problem with this discussion is that it is highly semantical. It all depends on your point of view.

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But if you were to stack that player, or the player who stacked him or the player who stacked the player who stacked the player - you wouldnt get that amount of money back - so it _does_ affect your WR.

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Like Marm said, it is semantical.

Yes it does affect it, but it is not a 1:1 relationship, it is far less than that because new money is coming and old money is going.

I think everyone agreed that the house removing a buy-in from the table every 100 hands has a long term detrimental affect on the game.

If PT says you have a .1 BB winrate with AT, you have that AFTER rake.

Think about it... when you put 2 bucks in a 5 dollar pot, and win 4.50 after the rake, you get a 4.50 pot. It is recorded as winning 2.50

So your numbers for AT would be like
+2.50
-1
-1

giving you .50 / 3 hands or about .18 a hand.

WITHOUT rake it would be
+3
-1
-1

So your win rate would be higher without the rake... but PT isn't fooling you into thinking you're winning with those hands, just not telling you why you're not winning MORE.

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yes, but thats poker! You act as if Party is the only site that takes rake Their rake is comprable to all other sites

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really? I was acting as if party is the only one that takes rake? I compared PS also.

I did comment "this is why I will only play party during a bonus" and that really isn't applicable to their NL and PL games.

Party is the only site I have played on that takes 10% of the pot at $5 in low limit games. That is double what UB, PS and AP take out.

But party's 2/4+ games don't take any rake until $20

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But what do they take? A buck? for if the pot is 16 and you are heads up, you looses 3/4 of your profit on a bet. Takes a good chunk of the value out of value bets.

I hate they way they do it. My last 600 hands of O8b averaged $36/100 at .5/1. I am not playing .5/1 O8b on that site anymore. Need to do a comparision with Paradise and the others.