Just curious, about how alot of you guys tend to play in the blinds after looking over some of my numbers. What do you think is a "good" or "typical" number for.. folded SB to steal, and folded BB to steal?

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You may find this thread very helpful:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=&sb=5&o=&vc=1

From the thread:

Folded SB to steal:

Mean: 83.01
Standard Deviation: 7.20
Min: 67.88
Max: 91.43
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 79.41-86.61


Folded BB to steal:

Mean: 63.09
Standard Deviation: 13.51
Min: 20.51
Max: 79.12
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 56.33-69.84

Interestingly every single one of my stats is within the ranges that they have posted except these two stats. These numbers seem really high folding percentages to me but I felt I am clearly too loose from the blinds even before I saw this thread.
I clearly defend my small blind too much, am actively trying to change that issue. Note that I am NOT calling, I am three betting with a bigger range than most and probably more than advisable. Easy to change habit online but difficult to do psychologically live since you see much fewer hands and really hard to fold once you have that money in the pot and you are staring at a raise from some drunk overaggressive donkey......

growlers

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See, with PAHud, it shows those numbers, plus a players tendency to attempt to steal, so I really base my numbers off their attitudes (I also look at what they were stealing with of course). So my numbers are kinda skewed by whos at my table.

Last year of play (85k+ hands)

Folded SB: 71.71%
Folded BB: 58.10%
Attmpts: 38.35%

Note, Those numbers would be lower (for folding) and higher for attempts if I didn't multi-table as much. I tend to preact PF more when I have 6+ tables open.

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I take that back about my own stats, my SB seems in line, it is my BB that i defend too much.

SB fold: 84% (as i stated i never call here, raise or fold is essential play to a steal - the newbs need to understand why!!!)
BB fold: 47%
attempt to steal: 38%

I am working on my BB leak and my last 2000 hands it is considerably better. At the lower limits i found i could bully people out on the flop some but at 2-4 the better players will eat you alive if you call steals too much.

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Wow, I think I might not be defending blinds enough, I don't have my stats in front of me now, but I know I'm folding way higher than those numbers, especially the SB, I think I'm close to if not over 90%. I've been going off of SSH guide for tight games on what hands to call PF raises with (which is fairly limited) from the blinds. My BB IIRC is in the 70% range I think.

Also my attempts to steal are too low....I've never really known but how does PT calculate steal attempts, when you look at the "attempted to steal the blinds" section? Is it just when you try from the CO or button?

See I think stealing and defending against stealing might be a big leak for me, I really don't think I can play from the blinds at all. In fact I'm fairly convinced I'm horrible at it. Especially when I see paint hit on the flop and I'm holding weak cards.

Growlers...I think I understand why you need to either reraise or fold from there, it's the post flop play where I get completely lost.

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I play ALOT of limit hold'em, and I would honestly say that post flop play in a blind steal situation is the hardest concept to master, both from the stealer's and stealee's standpoint. So don't be discouraged because it is very hard, and I am left scratching my head often.
I spent about 6 hours playing consecutive $1 headsup SNG's and some microlimit 2-3 handed limit games and that helped me some. The chapter on headsup play in HOHII also helped me (even though obviouisly covers NL).
This is where PT and PAHUD stats really help you make decisions, but I don't have PT at the Wynn :mad:

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I think the problem with SSHE hands to play is that it assumes you are playing in games with 6+ people to the flop, if you can find games like this you don't need to worry about stealing or defending.

Low limit HE online is a completely different animal, often it is 2 or 3 to a flop and it is really hard to tell what your opponent has. It can be frustrating, but you leave alot of money out there by folding your blinds too often. If you are sitting around a full table with VPIP ~ 20% the only money to really be made is by stealing.

Like Growlers, I rarely just call from the SB, and almost never from a CO or button steal. I play mainly Short games, so stealing and defending becomes even more important, I usually display steal attempts and BB defence numbers in my HUD, it helps. My numbers are all mixed up but for full ring, I have attempt to steal at around 30% which is low because I pretty much refuse to play tight full games (mmmm Paradise......).

To get better at full ring stealing/defending and non-nut peddling, practice at some .5/1 short games or play some nano limit HU's.

Yes, any donkey can raise to steal, but it how you play it post flop earns you the profit. These are so read and player specific, that it's very difficult to put into words how to do it. Some players I only attempt to steal when I have a playable hand, others I only fold to let them think I can fold, but would have prefered to steal with my 83o.

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In response to pytho, it is tough to find fins tight low limit games, most of them are SSH style, but i hvae found RiverBelle (and of course the rest of the prima network). Both the .25/.50 and .5/1 games end up in a steal situation 1/3 of the time. good practice. I could set you up with a referal too...... :whistles innocently:

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Absolute is insanely tight IMO. The ONLY money to made at 1-2 is stealing.
I still think HU micro SNG's is the best way to practice. Don't necessarily play to win. Just raise your button every time and just call from the big blind every time. Then try to win postflop and really think about each play.
Every hand you are either the stealer or the stealee!

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