I am wondering how many other winning poker players approach SnGs, especially 9 or 10 person (full table) SnGs. Specifically when you enter an SnG, is your stated goal to cash with the hopes of winning, or do you play to win?

I admit that I personally do not play to win. I play to cash. My goal is to play good, tight-aggressive poker. I don't call many raises, I let other players do that for the most part, but when I have hands I punish people for making mistakes. I try to avoid major confrontations or large pots early on with low blinds, unless they cannot be avoided. I just try to make sure that when I have a really good hand I maximize the winnings or minimize the risk, so I'm fine with raising large on AA or KK and having no calls. I actually do not like to see either hand early in a tournament. They are trouble hands, either I will double up if I get any action seemingly (the low buy-in SnGs are full of fish seemingly wanting to gamble it up) or I'll suffer a bad beat. I much prefer to see middle pockets so I can limp in an unraised pot and try to hit a set that will win me a lot of chips with less risk of a bad beat. All-ins before the flop just are not my cup of tea because I believe I can outplay opponents over the long run so having to make it about luck is just not my favorite situation.

My stats also reflect my general strategy. I pride myself on correct play near the bubble, and I can't even count the number of tournaments, probably most, where I'm 3rd, 4th or 5th in chips with 5 to play. Lately it has seemed like almost every tournament I think to myself, "Darn, I'm going to bubble aren't I?" But in the last 38 tournaments, since I started tracking again, I have only finished 4th one time. Quite a few more 5ths because I try to push hard and take advantage of people tightening up in that phase, so I'll do stuff like push all-in UTG with fairly weak hands if I'm down to 5-6 times the big blind (usually works but when I get called I'm usually at least holding live cards, haha). I've learned that you absolutely must have a large enough stack to scare people or your all-ins will just get no respect.

So I'm stoked about the way I am playing but let me share my stats and ask you guys how you play, if you see things a different way, etc.

In 38 tournaments I have cashed 25 times, including 8 straight and 12 of my last 13, 17 of my last 19, probably one of the greatest stretches in my poker career so far. Of those, 9 are 1sts, 4 are 2nds, and 12 are 3rds. Now I would normally be a bit concerned about the high number of 3rd place finishes, but actually because I have cashed more than 65% of the time I find them acceptable considering honestly a lot of those could have easily been bubble finishes. I rarely surrender a chip lead and bust out in third, so I'm not too disappointed. But what do you guys think? Do you play to win and thus have more bubbles but also more firsts? I've heard some people prefer that strategy because 1st pays so much better than 3rd.

As you can see though basically I either limp into the money and finish 3rd or I win, haha, I don't much mess around with 2nd. One of those 2nds, this last night of playing, Q-9 versus Q-6 (not all-in, we both flopped top pair) and he rivered me with the 6. That was kind of brutal. But in general I just don't finish 2nd. Once I make the money I start attacking blinds if the players are tight / weak or if they're aggressive I push all-in with the best hands I can find to steal blinds or double up and give myself a chance to win. I basically will admit I don't care about 2nd place. When it's down to 3 if I have enough chips to compete, I want 1st. If I don't, I'm willing to play very aggressive and take my chances and bust out in 3rd. I've also played a lot of heads up tournaments, about maybe 150 in a row on Poker Room at one point, so I have learned a lot about playing heads up and I think why I'm most proud of that 9 for 13 when it's down to 2 is because I generally don't have chip lead. One time on PR I won 11 heads-up tournaments in a row (but another time I lost 7 in a row, hehe, poker is a funny game).

Thoughts? Ideas? Criticisms?

Sounds about how I play em.

that's a looooong post, can't say I read it all

but yeah, tight early, aggressive later is the foundation for any good tournament play. no antes and blinds are low, so there's no reason to be aggressive. I play the solid hands and make few steals early and try to take notes on just about every player when I see them show some cards or make interesting moves. By the time I've switched gears I have a good idea of the style of just about every player there, assuming they'll be switching gears some too of course.

later levels of an sng is all about stealing blinds. gamboooool

Absolutely, those blinds become extremely important. I personally am not a fan of the way the blind structure works, I know I may sound odd for saying so, but I really believe there should be an absolute cap on blind levels at a certain percentage of the total chips. The other day we had 3 people left and I was chip leader and big blind was 8% of my stack, I just think that's ridiculous. For the two low stacks it was so many chips that we didn't see a flop for about 12 hands in a row. When we finally did I wrote, "What are those cards in the middle? Wow if I knew we got more than these two I would have played differently " lol. I just think it's ridiculous, oh of course it helps the poker site to finish up the tournament and get us all to pay another buy-in so they can make more rake, but it also reduces the skill drastically and just makes it about a lot of luck if the blinds get that high. "Ok hmm I have queen high and the big blind hits me next time, eh, ALL IN!" Fold. Fold. Next guy is like, "Well I have two cards that are almost next to each other, just one card between 'em, sure I'm ALL IN!" Fold. Fold. Repeat process until some trainwreck like A-K against A-J suited or something, etc. I just don't like it. I think blinds should be capped at 100-200 in an SnG with 13,500 total chips. Let the players play the game and may the best man actually win (most of the time). I am not complaining much because I always do well but I just think it becomes a circus and everyone at the table knows it. It's probably the #1 funniest thing about poker -- you can raise with anything, but you can't call with anything. I can raise confidently with A-3 offsuit to steal blinds but I don't even want to call a raise with A-10 suited because if I miss the flop then I just wasted chips, and I don't usually feel like pushing all-in with A-10 suited over his raise because I figure the blinds will simply be much easier to steal next hand, why get into a battle with this hand? lol. That's why you don't see any flops that late in a tournament. Heck sometimes everyone just folds to big blind.

I think the one thing that has made me much better in SnGs lately than I ever was before, and I'd love to hear what everyone else does here, is realizing that with 4 players to go even if I'm 2nd in chips but it's a relatively tight field (even 4th has enough chips to play, for instance), I MUST be aggressive and steal those blinds fairly often. Because I remember as a newer player I just thought, "Ok I'm 2nd in chips now I don't want to be stupid I'll just fold any hand that isn't really really good and hope the other players do something stupid." Then suddenly the blinds pass a few more times and I go, "Uhh, wow. I'm all of the sudden the shortest stack." Now I realize especially at low levels with inexperienced / bad players, they are all thinking just how I did before, so I punish the blinds especially if I'm last in chips. I go by the saying, "The most dangerous man in the world is the one who has nothing to lose." I'm 4th in chips. I'm not going to cash if I finish 4th in chips, so might as well go out swinging, haha. And somehow the more aggressive I am, when at first you think you're being stupid for putting your tournament on the line by raising all-in with A-3 offsuit or J-K suited, etc., the better I do. I would say my aggression increases drastically throughout the tournament, from almost a total rock at the start (watch the donks donk each other, hehe, like I saw 4-4 all-in against A-Ko first hand last tournament, 4-4 won), to aggressive in the middle stages, then when I'm in the money I play to win so I raise frequently and put the pressure on the other players. It's really tough to do in my opinion because I feel so nervous raising with mediocre hands but I realize that someone has to have a much better hand than I do to call.

Jonathon, I like your long posts and theorys, pm me so we can talk more strategy please

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WHOS LAUGHING NOW DONK?

Hey, yeah I'd love to talk strategy. I have friends who play poker but not too many who play that actively and I can't talk strategy with them as much or have them be as excited about my poker stories

I'm famous for my long posts. I have published two books, well three technically but one was just a collection of essays in philosophy from undergrad school, so I type fast and rant a lot online, haha.

I have to admit that right now I am just loving the game, I mean I cannot believe how I am playing, I don't want to say that it's just me because the cards have been running hot at the same time but THIS is why I play poker! It makes me feel so good about playing well when you struggle through a week, playing your game, and you're up like $5 and you think, "God is this even worth it? I mean I waste all of these nights playing and I win freakin' $5? Forget this, I should just watch movies, more relaxing and more fun" (if you're suffering bad beats).

But this hot streak is just special, it's one of the most amazing things I have ever witnessed in poker. I think even any tournament professional would have a lot of difficulty duplicating what I've just accomplished, $5 buy-ins or not, and I'm not patting myself on the back I'm saying THAT'S how great the cards have been! Trust me a few hands here or there, an ace on the river, a lower pocket pair hitting the set, and this streak was non-existent.

Today I just played two tournaments so far, the 9 person SnGs, and both tables at the same time. I was not doing very well early, I raised with A-J suited (just barely, I honestly don't consider that a raising hand but I also didn't want the blinds to see the flop and two pair, potentially costing me more than the raise). The flop came up and I paired the jack and bet a bit smaller than the pot. I get called by the only guy left. Third diamond hits the turn. I check after he checks. River is a fourth diamond. I check after he checks. He hit the set of 6s on the flop and I thought wow how lucky am I that I didn't bust out on that hand? If I would have hit a third ace, I would have probably pushed all-in against his full house. If I hit two pair I'd be very confident I was winning, if those diamonds hadn't shown I mean. But the diamonds saved my tournament. I was able to get away from that hand having only lost about 25% of my chip stack instead of a crippling amount.

On the other table I was chip leader early after some stupid play by opponents, not really sure what the one dude was doing but he pushed all-in against my set with some garbage middle pair and I was just thinking, "Ok... thanks?" The other table where I lost to the set was going badly but I hung around and with 5 to go I pushed all-in with 6s and I was 4th stack, the other dude was bound to call because he had only 3x big blind and was on big blind, he had A-7, I took him out and was sitting still 4th in chips and well behind the others, almost 2-to-1 underdog versus any of them. I won some chips up to 3,000 and was even with them, but then I made a blind-stealing attempt from SB on K-7 suited and got pushed all-in, the dude wouldn't let anyone steal his blinds, he was playing good poker I thought, he was reading me right at least and putting pressure on. I didn't want to go up against him at all frankly. I raised a bit later after stealing blinds with some all-ins (only way not to get called by that guy) and called an all-in after raising with A-10, the dude was then low stack and I took him out, he had 10-J. That particular table I was going to be happy with 3rd because I felt the players were quite strong and knew how to play very good poker.

On the other table the players were much worse, and when I checked my flush on the turn against this dude he pushed all-in on the river when he hit his straight, he was 2nd in chips at the time and I called, took him out, and suddenly I was heads up with a 6-to-1 advantage. First hand heads up, A-Q, she pushes all-in, I call, she has A-10 and I win.

The other table I make it to heads up, with the chip lead no less after taking out third place as well as fourth and fifth places. Then I read his style and I was really confident I could win heads up because his style is an easy one to play against. Basically I could usually steal blinds before the flop with stuff like J-K, A-7, etc. But on the flop his move was all-in every time. I never hit anything on those flops anyway, so I just folded. Finally I hit top pair, Q-7, and checked. He predictably went all-in and I called immediately -- he had 2-8 offsuit, no pairs, nothing, and that was the end of the tournament.

Two more tournaments, two more wins, two more cashes, and that's three SnG tournament wins in a row, 10 cashes in a row, and 19 cashes out of 21 tournaments! That's very very hard to duplicate, haha. Just the luck alone makes it so unlikely that in my life I probably won't have this happen again. I've been on the bubble seemingly in at least half of those tournaments, no joke, at least half, and thinking I'm going to finish 4th or 5th, but my aggression got me into the money almost every time. On that one table when I pushed all-in with pocket 6s, one of the dudes (the guy I was heads up against later) told me that he folded 10s because, "Dude you folded every hand for like 20 minutes and were just sitting there, so I assumed when you went all-in you had a monster. You made me fold my 10s, grr." And I just smiled to myself and thought -- that's great poker. My tightness at the start earned me respect at the table for my late-game raises, and that's the beauty of this strategy and why I've been winning so consistently I think. I can change gears from a rock to the table's most aggressive player in the middle stages, then at the end of the tournament adapt to my remaining opponents and usually outplay them if I have the chips.

Well done on those two tournaments. Sounds like you have a strong understanding for sng strategy. Posting some of those hands in the SNG strategy forum would be interesting as well.

Do you have a blog?

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What do you consider the "middle' in a 18 player SNG? aroun 9-10 players left? Then start agressing it?

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WHOS LAUGHING NOW DONK?

you need to think more about position and stack sizes... you're a little bit focussed on cards.

Cashing is not enough. You might think about the value of knocking people out and doubling up... this has more value than being knocked out... think about it...

Blind increases impose a change of pace on the game. Your game has to resonate with that change.

If you find low M's hard - (big blind sizes) then go play 200 turbos to improve....

If you want a cap on blinds - go play ring...

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Doberman: "but Sarge, isn't poker gambling and just luck?"
Sgt. Bilko:" not the way I play it"

Jonathan, while you have a basic understanding of tournaments you seem to be too much results-oriented. Whether it is correct to play a certain hand and how to play it can be often determined accurately, especially in online SnGs with few players left. Sometimes it is even completely independent of how your opponents play. Read about ICM/EV, the 2+2 forums are also good to learn strategy.

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