Response to Steve-o

WotaWaster · #1 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 06:24 AM

I thought it not fair to TA to continue this debate in his thread however I diagree with alot of Steves points here:

Quote:

I disagree with the people saying it's a control problem and not poker.

I quit playing poker myself (for any serious stakes at all) just after my son was born. It's difficult to play poker as a living and have a normal relationship or family life, unless your significant other also is a poker player.

#1 - the hours are weird. Try going to dinner or a movie with your wife on a friday night when all your thinking about is the donks at the table you're missing. Or, not tucking in your kids because you're off at a casino. Or, your wife sitting home wondering what kind of mood you'll be in for the next day or so.

#2 - as TA pointed out your either on a big high or an unbelievable low. isn't it funny how we talk about making x amount an hour but we never are even close to it from session to session? When I was playing 20/40 limit I was making $52 an hour, I never had a 6 hour session where I made $300 though! It was always like +800, +1,200, -$600...

#3 - you get burnt out, poker is no longer fun. It simply turns into "what did I earn". I played poker for years, before it blew up even. I remember my fascination with the game and waiting patiently, studying, all those things. Honestly, I just don't have it anymore. I did exactly what TA did, I cashed out all my money (I didn't burn my poker books though) and I haven't even touched a deck of cards in at least 3 months.

I think he did the right thing for himself at the moment. He can always go back to it, when he has the passion for the game back, when he's more mature and in a better place in life.

To use a corny expression: it doesn't matter if you win or lose, its how you play the game. It doesn't matter if he's a good player or a bad player, if poker is fucking up your real life you need to step back from it.

If your real estate or banking job caused you to drink, and be miserable, and lie to your family, most people would tell you to quit. No matter how succesful you are, same with cards, fellas. There rae more important things in life than fame and fortune, glad TA realized this.

WotaWaster · #2 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 06:41 AM

I expect there is a signifcant diference between live and online play but in my experience as an online player:

1. Hours are somewhat wierd although at almost any time of the day there are enough degenerates on some site from some part of the world that you can pretty much choose your own hours. In fact if you are prepared to settle for about $50/hr you can make this multitabling NL100 pretty much anytime of the day with no trouble imo.

2. Highs/Lows. No different to any other job. If you are an employee you will come home and moan about wanting to smack your boss cos he is a prick, if you are a manger you will be stressing over meeting targets etc. Your wife should support you through it. If you are literally coming home and kicking the dog after a losing session then its an issue, but again I think its a personal problem and not a problem with the game of poker.

3. Burnt out? Maybe I am a freak, I remember people telling me this when I first wanted to go pro on this forum but I must have played 1.5 million hands of cash NLHE now. I am still learning and changing my game regularly, I am still enjoying playing and winning.

I guess it may take a certain type of player to make it playing full time without it consuming your whole life, but I feel I have achieved this now (Maybe I should get my wife to post, she may disagree

). I am extremely happy with my job and willing to defend it here to anyone who wants to critise it

OrionPro · #3 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 07:30 AM

Wota you're one of the very few who really works hard not just on the game, but on getting indifferent to winning or losing and see it as a job, as well.

While I agree with you, most of us just aren't there yet and thus poker is a potential danger for the reasons Steve-O mentioned.

davidab157 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 07:35 AM

I don't think it's so much arguments against being a poker player, it's how you let it affect your life and ultimately your family and friends. True, any career can result in obsessive behaviour/mood swings etc. but I don't think that it's general obsessiveness etc. that's the issue from what I read of TA's post (since that is what the debate seemed to be about). In his case, and from my perception of the post, it was poker and his obsession with it that started and amplified the problems he mentioned.

This isn't to say a poker career is a bad thing, just maybe he felt he wasn't managing it as well as he hoped he would.

gder03 · #5 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 01:25 PM

uhh playing live is 10x harder I think.

I read a pretty depressing post on 2+2 talking about how few ppl can make 80k+ a year playing mid stakes (like nl500).

IMO poker is a bad career unless you dont have to grind every day.

Bagonirix · #6 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WotaWaster

I expect there is a signifcant diference between live and online play but in my experience as an online player:

1. Hours are somewhat wierd although at almost any time of the day there are enough degenerates on some site from some part of the world that you can pretty much choose your own hours. In fact if you are prepared to settle for about $50/hr you can make this multitabling NL100 pretty much anytime of the day with no trouble imo.

2. Highs/Lows. No different to any other job. If you are an employee you will come home and moan about wanting to smack your boss cos he is a prick, if you are a manger you will be stressing over meeting targets etc. Your wife should support you through it. If you are literally coming home and kicking the dog after a losing session then its an issue, but again I think its a personal problem and not a problem with the game of poker.

3. Burnt out? Maybe I am a freak, I remember people telling me this when I first wanted to go pro on this forum but I must have played 1.5 million hands of cash NLHE now. I am still learning and changing my game regularly, I am still enjoying playing and winning.

I guess it may take a certain type of player to make it playing full time without it consuming your whole life, but I feel I have achieved this now (Maybe I should get my wife to post, she may disagree

). I am extremely happy with my job and willing to defend it here to anyone who wants to critise it

Am I the only that agree with Wota? Hours are no problem for me. I have no kids, no gf right now, basically nothing that distracts me from poker, except for other hobbies.

High/Lows: Poker is all about volume. You can't really expect to make alot of money. No matter how much I bitch in RR, I don't really care about about those, they dont really bother me.

I don't get burnt out I just love this game so much

davidab157 · #7 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 03:28 PM

I agree with what Wota was saying about poker lifestyle etc. but not how it relates to TA, I think his issues are stemming from poker more than people might think (but that's just from his post, obv I don't know the whole story).

One thing wota is the point about playing all hours of the day being good at 100nl or whatever, that's true but if you are playing for a living are you seriously saying you would play exclusively daytime hours or something when you have the chance to sit down on a friday and saturday night and get cash handed to you?

obga · #8 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 04:02 PM

ive been playing successfully online now for almost 2.5 years and till this day I love it as much as I did day 1. I love the competivtive edge and i love making money working at something Im good at. Im just afraid when they make the US legislation change to tax my winnings Im not gonna like it as much...

FaDi · #9 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 04:45 PM

more like steve-ho

amirite?

davidab157 · #10 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 04:58 PM

fadi you know he's a mod who can ban you right?