what happened today in blacksburg, va. is a terrible tragedy. i cannot imagine the loss that these families are going through right now.

my personal belief, that owning a firearm is an inalienable right. for people of the united states, thats your second admendment of the US constitution.

reasons for believing this-
1. the right to protect myself, family or anyone else who is under duress.
2. the right to hunt, and put food on my table. i do not hunt, but i do not want to give up my rights because i'm not exercising them to their full potential.
3. the right to protect myself and property from foreign invaders. not that i expect the canadian hoard to cross lake erie and declare war on ohio. i still want the right to shoot them if they do.
4. the right to protect myself and property from a corrupt government.

when you take away my rights to bear arms, you take away my right to protect myself.

is my reasoning out of fear? somewhat. feelings of protection/safety and fear go hand in hand.

i believe that its more worriesome to the bad guys when anyone could have a shotgun behind the next door they break into.

so true, but there was always trouble before the invention of gunpowder.

when we, the US, stop selling guns to these revolutionaries.

why do you think so many people feel like they need to carry a knife to defend themselves?

A:
because the bad guys know that the good guys don't carry guns and are easier marks. so since the gun ban, muggings have gone up and now more people have to arm themselves with the next best thing, a knife.

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f*cking it up for everyone else since 1969.

Fuck off. Just because I come from a different culture with different laws, which I think work, doesn't make me a tree hugger. Honestly it's that fucking attitude that gives the US such a bad name from outside circles, "he doesn't like guns, he's a hippy".

VGrozny if you have seen any of the UK news reports, it has all been about "should gun laws be tightened?". That's why I asked it here. I think they should be, it's my opinion, I like knowing that the chances of being shot here are minimal. I don't want to have to get a gun to protect myself in case some crazy comes into my house or whatever. If I have a gun and someone comes into my house with a gun, how do we think that's gonna end? Someone is getting hurt bad, maybe him, maybe me, either way it ain't good. Here, if someone comes into my house with a gun, fuck it there's nothing I can do, give'em what they want and call the police later (possessions are nothing really). I don't want a bloodbath in my house "just because I'm allowed to".

You definitely make a good argument VGrozny and I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just a difference of opinion probably due to the way we were brought up. The risk of gun crime in the UK is pretty minimal now (sure it happens though) so the thought of legalising them never crosses our minds as things seem much better the way they are. That's what makes me think it could be like that in the US, but I dunno.

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More people die in Chicago every month through gun crime than died in the Irish/British troubles over twenty years.

Most people in the USA who are shot - are shot with their own guns

The 30+ poor sods who died yesterday had the right to bare arms - it didn't help them.

Anyone looking at the statistics for gun related crime in Europe (guns not allowed) against America wiil be shocked at how the USA continues to yield to the gun lobby.


I was brought up with guns (unusually in the UK - my father had a big collection - which became illegal). I can strip/rebuild and shoot most small arms. But like a majority of humans - I have no need for the skill.

In 1986 a friend of mine (Julie Stott) had just finished University in Manchester (a city which at that time had just gone through some bad riots and was a notorious drug baron playfield and very dangerous. I was mugged - attempted - once- and burgled four times in three years - Manchester was that rough). Julie had lived in Manchester for three years too. On her honeymoon she went with her husband to Orlando (USA). She was shot in the head by someone - who had the right to carry a gun. She died instantly.

Right to defend yourself? Yeah and Iran has the right to a nuclear arms program - they're only defending themselves.

The people who want to carry guns are usually a little backward thinking and are probably the last people on earth I would trust to do so.

It is possible over time to remove guns and more importantly eradicate the gun culture. It would take a mature society to do it. Dave , you have to remember that in the USA they still have capital punishment in some States. The balance between "rights" and social and International responsibility of the government is still developing.

There is a real problem in the USA with escalation of threats - as there are insome African countries. It takes time to understand that saying you have a bigger weapon than your adversary is not the best way to deal with problems

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true of the matter is that even if the US did ban guns they couldn't confiscate all the guns in a 100 years. People here in the US still use guns for gathering food and recreation. And some cultures use guns in the culture practice. I know that a lot of pueblo Indians use rifles in there culture practices. So that alone would be violating there constitutional rights.

Thats just one example, there are tons of reason why it would never be banned here. It has always been a way of life here. I don't know how its like in england but here a lot of people were raised with guns. I don't know if you brits know this but this country isn't very old. There are tons of people who live outside of cities and rely on guns to protect not only them but there animals or herds from things like wolves,coyotes,bears in rare cases. Guns don't have minds of there own. there are just mental people in this world who cannot cope with there problems and stuff like this happens.

oh and david is a tree hugging carebear

Criminals don't buy guns in gun shops. Get real.

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This happens in the UK too. A lot of farmers have shotguns etc. to protect their animals/go hunting. As far as I'm aware you have to have a license though.

Are you guys honestly saying that the relaxed gun laws don't play a part in the number of shootings in the US? Is it just "lucky" that Europe has nowhere near this level of gun crime?

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Threat of animals :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rica_by_decade

53 people have died in the USA through bear attacks since 1900 (yes -1900). Attack by animals is no real risk in the States. We have bears in Europe too.

A web search shows that 25 ppl die every hour in the USA through gun fatalities. (2/3 are suicide attempts).

In the two hours between the shootings (where was Bruce Willis??) more ppl died outside WV through gun misuse.

People who are too scared to walk outside without a gun - would be too scared to use it if the need arose.

As for external threats. Britain. for its sins, has been involved in many international disputes. What we know is that these disputes are rarely resolved using firearms. Enemy tactics are rarely deployed on a nice battlefield. Your enemy will poison your water, fly planes into buildings, launch suicide bomb attacks, undermine using propaganda, use gas, biological methods and bomb outright (I have personally heard two bombs go off in Manchester in the last 15 years).

Guns don't deal with any of these scenarios.

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I think the best point brought up so far was davids point in that if someone breaks into my house with a gun, i lose my stuff and then claim them back on insurance. If i have a gun, theres a pretty big chance i might die and i know which id prefer.
On the other hand i agree with what kre8r said about if you take guns away people will kill with something else BUT, would 30 innocent people have died yesterday if those people had to resort to knives?

But plenty of innocent people get killed by guns bought perfectly legally, no?. Letting anyone own such a deadly weapon for whatever reason they want is what gets to me.

What has surprised me is that every US poster in this thread seems all for the current gun laws, is this a common view across the country?

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I think its very hypocritical to show such remorse for the tragic events of yesterday but completely disregard the suggestion of tougher gun laws. America has the highest gun crime rate of any country in the world and the most lax gun control laws.

You say everyone has the right to protect themselves but what do need protecting from? I cant imagine many people live in such a dangerous area that you need a gun to protect yourself. The only thing you need protecting from is someone else with a gun.

But as you have a law lodged in the constitution that has absolutely no relevance to the present day, morons like the NRA will still defend their 'rights' and innocent people will continue to die.

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